The only thing this marketing ignoramus can say with unshakeable confidence, is that marketing ain’t sales. The rest I’m not all that sure about. Though to be fair, the more I read, the more I’m confused. So many of those who put bread on the table giving marketing advice, disagree vehemently with each other on so many aspects of their trade. But that’s true in most disciplines, right?
Anywho, the more I read, observe, and try to understand about real estate marketing, the more I wanna ask the one question I think is almost never asked.
Is your marketing, whether in-house or from outside, producing bottom line, as in ‘your banker is happy to see you’ kinda results?
Since I generally couldn’t market my way out of a wet paper bag, I tend to use what works, discarding the rest. I suspect some of what I have discarded, failed due to my poor execution rather than bad marketing advice. Though Lord knows, I’ve paid for some pretty worthless counsel. Here’s what’s on my new menu.
What’s the Holy Grail of real estate marketing?
For my sake, let’s not make it too complicated. It’s marketing that predictably delivers wicked good bottom line results.
Did I say results? I meant results measurable in terms of increased bank deposits, not mountains of ‘leads’. Man, if there’s a marketing term that’s pretty much lost any real meaning these days, it’s ‘lead’. I’m surprised there isn’t a statue somewhere in homage to the lead. If there was any justice, it’d be the statue sportin’ the most pigeons.
Let’s really trash what seems to be the prevailing concept of leads while we’re at it.
Have you noticed how most marketing people want you to base the success of any real estate marketing system they tout, upon the quantity of leads, instead of increasing sales? Don’t get me wrong, they tell us sales will go up, but for the most part they’re sellin’ ways to generate leads. To be fair, their logical retort is that it’s not their fault the client isn’t enjoying significantly increased sales — they provided the promised leads, right? Again, is there any more bastardized term in real estate marketing than ‘lead’? It means nothing and all things — simultaneously.
If there’s anyone out there who generates fewer leads a year than I do, please raise your hand now. π Everyone I know triggers more leads from their online efforts than I. From 1/1 through 7/31 this year I’ve generated a grand total of less than 50. All are from blogging, as direct mail, warm calls, and the rest have been on the sidelines the last seven years. The IDX only went operational several days ago. The reason? I haven’t been able to do business in my local market. Now that I’m back, albeit in a pretty self-limiting way, all those marketing approaches are now back in my marketing arsenal with a vengeance.
Direct Mail
This has proven to be the most predictably successful marketing mode I’ve used over the last 23+ years. (First used mail in 1987) Nothing has come close to its results. In fact, based upon my experience, nothing I’ve ever used has even approached direct mail marketing for result$.
Want numbers?
I’ll use the late 1990’s as an example so there won’t be those who question results based upon a developing bubble. From late 1997 through the end of 1999 direct marketing produced roughly 80% of my business gained through various marketing modes. (Not counting referrals.) In today’s post-correction market, those sales would represent roughly $300,000. Even that’s misleading, as back then I rarely sent more than 500-1,500 pieces of mail, probably less than half of what I’ll now be doing. Also, ’till now, I’ve never mailed to expired listings, FSBOs, or single family rentals.
Of course, I know a lot more now about what works and what doesn’t using direct mailing due to over 20 years of trial and error — mostly error. Still, to be clear — I don’t for a second think I’m anywhere near being even a pretend-expert on the approach. The addition of expired listings will account for much business. The minimum ‘targeted’ mailing will probably be somewhere around 3-5,000 — roughly quarterly. There will also be an VERY narrowly targeted ‘mail farm’ of no more than 1,000 properties. They’ll get something every 4-6 weeks.
From all this, and again, based upon personal experience only, I expect a minimum of 215 leads in the next 12 months. Add to that the 80-100 blogging produces, and the production from those sources will be limited to whatever I can salvage from the combined maximum 315 leads. If my ‘house agent’ colleagues are being honest, and they always have been, that’s about what they create in 4-12 weeks or so. Some are literally swimming in as many as 30-40+ leads daily.
Warm Calls
Pretty much any call I make professionally is warm, cuz that’s the kinda guy I am. π But kidding aside, it’s warm due to it’s timing — about 24-72 hours after they’ve received mail from me. My batting average isn’t what the pros have predicted though. Many say our production from direct mail marketing should increase by up to 40% when followed up with a phone call within 1-3 days. Due to the ‘Don’t call’ list, and the fact that in San Diego you’re lucky if 20% of the numbers are even findable, I can only confidently say that warm calling has in fact increased my conversion rate and probably more than a bit. I’d say it’s accounted for about a 10-20% increase in direct mailing bottom line results. For a 3,000 piece mailing, that might mean listing 1-2 extra properties — hardly a small impact.
Business produced by IDX
No use talkin’ much about the primary agenda behind my local site’s IDX. I’m tryin’ to combine three different aspects of my marketing to turn it into a listing generator. We’ll see. Much smarter folks than I have tried it and failed. I’ll let you know my results, good/bad/ugly or laughable.
The secondary purpose of the IDX site is to bring in buyers. We’re gonna take a somewhat modified approach. Suffice to say, at the very least our semi-worthless company site will now begin doin’ some of the heavy lifting, something it’s not done since it came online in 2006. None of the local sales will be to investors — ever — no exceptions. I won’t be handling those buyers.
Annual Conversion Rates — Direct Mail
Expired Listings: 500 pieces — 12 Exchange listings — 42 Sides
Comment: If I can’t go 12/500 I don’t deserve to show my face in public.
‘Targeted’ Mailings: 20-25K Mail pieces — 12 Exchange listings — 42 Sides
Comment: My response rate, throwing out the high and low, has ranged from .25% to a couple calls over 4%. Most were in the .5-1.25% neighborhood. I’m assuming a .5% average for the year. Based on 20K pieces, that’s 100 people who called me. Again, if 100 investors care enough to respond with a phone call, and I can’t list 12 properties…
Absentee owner: 1,500 Mail pieces — 6 Exchange listings — 21 Sides
Comment: These letters will all be WAY customized to each particular owner’s circumstances. Parameters will include when bought, debt level, probable cash flow, etc. They’ll also include specific & detailed strategies available to the investor/recipient. Often, they will not have known these strategies were on their menus. I suspect the response rate for these will hover around 1-1.5% — possibly more. Those responding will generally be more motivated. Though 6 listings is still what i expect, some may not be for exchange. This would significantly reduce the number of total sides. Time will tell.
FSBO: Mail pieces? No clue. A listing a quarter? Maybe? Bonus biz.
Comment: When I listed/sold homes as a young man, I cut my teeth on FSBOs. Still, I have no freakin’ idea whatsoever if I’ll get any results at all. Then again…
The above is separate from whatever business comes from blogging, seminars (3 different kinds), referrals, some group thingies we’re doin’, and the new IDX venture. When I said I was excited about being able to add my hometown market to the mix, now you can see why. Besides, I can now rightfully take my place at the local real estate agent Happy Hour on Fridays.
Any advice, criticism, or pithy observations are not only welcomed, but encouraged.
Eric Michael says:
Hi Jeff,
Those numbers seem to sound about right, at least in theory (my theory, of course). I’m just getting this real estate show moving, so reading your blog is part inspiration, part “wow, that makes sense. I guess I CAN do this!” Being at the front end of my journey, I don’t think I could do direct mail to that extent. At least not if I want to stay married. But I think the seminar angle is a great way to go. I’m working on 2 right now: one for buyers, a second for short sales. I’m hoping that the results between the 2 will force me to add “investors” to the seminar list.
Thanks!
Eric…
August 1, 2010 — 7:23 am
jay seville says:
That’s funny. 2 paragraphs into the piece I said this must be Jeff writing….
j
August 1, 2010 — 8:47 am
Jeff Brown says:
Jay — π
August 1, 2010 — 9:47 am
Jeff Brown says:
Eric — Gotta think since you’re workin’ in real estate’s ‘ground zero’, that your work is really cut out for ya. I’d love to talk with you, as I’m bettin’ there are some scaled back approaches to some of what I’m doing that will fit your practice and keep you inside the marital bliss bubble. π
August 1, 2010 — 9:52 am
Eric Michael says:
Sounds good to me. Let me know what you’re thinking.
August 1, 2010 — 10:01 am
Sean Purcell says:
Jeff, I have a simple question – I’m not as smart as most of you who write here and I need to keep things simple – what’s an Exchange listing and how does one get 42 Sides from 12 of ’em?
August 1, 2010 — 11:12 am
Jeff Brown says:
The Prince of Princeton is in the house. π
Simple — The investor lists his income property with the intent to qualify for and execute a tax deferred exchange. Guy in Lemon Grove sells his triplex for enough to net him $160K. He then ‘exchanges’ that equity tax deferred to an average of 2.5 properties outa San Diego. That’s a total of 3.5 sides. 12 X 3.5 = 42.
August 1, 2010 — 2:38 pm
Alex Cortez says:
Good stuff, Jeff. I particularly like numbers, so seeing your stats gives me a better idea as to where I should be focusing more efforts. I have been doing some direct marketing to expireds (not a blanket approach, only sending to properties that have marketability and reasonable pricing to begin with). So far hitting about 2%, but hopefully improving after tweaking out the DM and follow up calls. Anyway, great information, thanks for sharing.
August 1, 2010 — 7:31 pm
Kaiholo Hale says:
Wow, direct marekting has really worked for you. I wish I could say the same but I need to do more in that regard. Thanks.
August 1, 2010 — 7:32 pm
Janie Coffey says:
Jeff, last year I signed up for an unnamed lead service. They sent us TONS and TONS of leads. But to us they were junk. They were not in our targe eco/geo target market. They became nothing but a time drain as they still needed to be dealt with (leads are still people after all) taking precious time away from our properly generated leads. I’d rather have 10 hyper focused leads than 1000 macro leads. You can use marketing, prospecting to get those leads, but if they aren’t looking for what YOU are selling, then they are worthless.
August 2, 2010 — 6:21 am
Jeff Brown says:
Hey Janie — After talkin’ with a few of the agents getting so many leads daily, the though occurred to me — Why would ya do that to yourself on purpose?
BTW, your new site is seriously, wicked cool.
August 2, 2010 — 7:10 am
Dan Connolly says:
The reality is that if you have to generate a large number of leads to find a few really good ones who are actually going to close. I talk to lots of people every day and many of them turn out not to be serious and don’t go anywhere. Yet probably one out of ten turn out to be qualified, motivated and ready to go.
Why would I want a large number of leads? Ultimately my goal is to be able to make serious $$ with just referrals. I am not talking about referring the unmotivated unqualified leads, but the ones that are actually worth working with. I never understand the agents that talk about difficult clients being referred to other agents. Why would you do that to someone? You want to develop relationships with agents that do a good job and actually make the client happy and if you only refer good prospects, they will take really care of the folks you send them.
August 2, 2010 — 8:46 am
Jeff Brown says:
Dan — Agree completely. Leads we don’t feel are a fit for us will be referred to top flight agents I’ve known for years. Difficult clients, AKA jerks? We’ve traditionally referred those out to agents for whom we’ve lost no love. π
August 2, 2010 — 8:57 am
jeffrey gordon says:
Hey Jeff,
thanks, a great article laced with insight and your typical funny as heck experience!
I am waiting for a story about the friday night local re happy hour!
August 2, 2010 — 4:03 pm
Chris Johnson says:
Love it. “bank deposits β leads.”
People want to make a website that brings them checks without any middle steps.
More later.
August 4, 2010 — 12:16 pm
Jeff Brown says:
Yeah, let me know when you create that website for sure.
August 4, 2010 — 2:47 pm
Tim Shepard says:
Thanks for sharing your plan. A few questions:
1. What is the annual budget for a campaign like that?
2. How much GCI do you expect these campaigns to generate?
3. Will you work all of the leads from this campaign or do you have other agents and/or assistants?
August 5, 2010 — 8:37 pm
Jeff Brown says:
Hey Tim — great questions.
Budget — Experience tells me $20-25,000 for the year. It could be slightly more, but not likely much less. The vast majority of the time, if seminars for brokers/agents are outa town, they pay my expenses.
GCI — I never go into specifics, publicly, about my earnings, but the GCI will require a couple commas. (I’d be more than happy to talk turkey with you on the phone however, as long as you cross your heart, hope to die, stick a needle in your eye.) π
The local folks buying San Diego homes/duplexes/fourplexes via FHA etc., will not be handled my me. Either my son, or a handful of local agents will be doing the job — agents who work for other companies. Son works for me.
I’ll be personally handling the rest. And yes there will be assistants. As it turns out, I ran into my office landlord today. The connecting office may be available in January — perfect timing, and just enough room for up to three assistants.
I’ll end up busy, but with TCs, (not in-house) and the assistants, my experience shows it’s comfortably doable inside a 9-5 workweek. (Sometimes 9-?)
Make sense?
August 5, 2010 — 9:00 pm
Taylor White, PHD says:
Fantastic breakdown of the cheese…and is San Diego the best place or what?
I compare people talking about LEADS the same way as sites talk about UNIQUE VISITORS.
When it is all said and done, our bank statements dont say either of these things.
August 9, 2010 — 5:01 pm