NASA hasn’t invented the device sensitive enough to measure the apathy I harbor for what business model other real estate firms use. In fact, taking it a step farther, I’d probably have to climb up several rungs on the ‘I care’ ladder to reach apathy on that subject. Fair enough?
Whether you like the model Grandpa used in 1951 or any of the new ones currently in beta testing, there’s one concept from which they all could prosper.
Old School mentoring. And before you stifle that yawn, ask yourself a question.
As a kid playing youth baseball, would you have been a better hitter if your coach had been an ex-pro ballplayer?
I coached under four former pro players, and trust me, the difference ain’t real difficult to discern. One of ’em had been a catcher in the Japanese minors a few years before hangin’ ’em up. Guess who always had the best catchers in the league? In the 13-14 league the pitcher with the hands down best change-up was the kid whose dad went to the ex-pro pitcher for help. Duh.
I wonder what Rodney Dangerfield would say if he was a newbie agent with an assigned mentor in the average real estate brokerage? I think I know.
“Hey — Take my mentor, please!”
For the years I spent as a broker-associate with a huge San Diego brokerage firm, I was able to observe first hand what passes for mentoring. Long story short? The office manager quietly pulled me into the office one day. Seems the agents in charge of the mentor program (usually around 24 new agents) were complaining to her because their charges were beating a path to my office for help. π Not being schooled in politically correct speech, I asked her why she was talking to me, and not grillin’ her ‘mentors’ as to why their students consistently ignored them so as to get the scoop from me.
She explained how I was undermining the mentor’s position of authority. I replied that their authority was possibly a figment of their imaginations. This was not well received. And for the record, I never in any way, shape, or form, directly or via implication ever solicited the attention of any newbie. They slowed me down, OK?
I then asked the manager why they’d come to me in the first place if they were already getting what they needed? Crickets. I was told in no uncertain terms I was to send all newbies back to their mentors, and with a stirling endorsement. The gauntlet had been thrown.
I found out through the office grapevine which newbie was about to be booted from the program, and struck up a conversation. Turns out they’d been mentored for nearly 13 months and had closed one whole escrow. I then marched my BawldSelf back to the manager’s office and said I wanted that guy as one of my assistants. She said if the mentors signed off on it, it’d be OK with her, but why would I want an agent who’d only closed one deal in over a year (2000) after being trained so intensively? I wanted to prove a point: They weren’t mentoring anyone for success in real estate.
Side note: The mentors agreed, but had the gall to demand a piece of his first two deals. Unbelievable.
I don’t know how to say this any other way, so I’m just gonna say it. I made that kid (25) my bitch for eight months. The first month, Dan was given every crap job there was. Then the real training began. He was excited the only investment guy in the office was training him. He had severe dyslexia, which meant he had to learn everything verbally and by watching me do it, as reading just slowed him to a crawl.
By the end of three months he was the best of three assistants, and my hatchet man for ‘problems’. At first he’d ask me how I wanted him to handle something. Then he’d tell me the ways he was thinking of handling something, what way should he use? By the end of the fifth month he was telling me how he’d solved the problem. By the end of the seventh month he was solving problems of which I wasn’t yet aware, leaving little notes on my phone — smart ass.
After eight months I deemed him ready to act as an investment agent under my close watch, but more or less solo. Meanwhile, back at water cooler central, some of the house agents had been offended by Dan becoming my assistant after failing so miserably in the mentor program. “Who does he think he is? What’s he tryin’ to prove?” Indeed.
In his first 30 days as an agent Dan booked just over $30,000 in gross commissions.
As do most offices, this one had a centrally located ‘whiteboard’ where agents would post their new sales or listings. I never used it because nobody cared about what I listed or sold, as they weren’t homes. I made an exception in Dan’s case. π
You should of seen the constant stream of newly silent critics looking at Dan’s very impressive numbers. I swear Dan must’ve ‘casually’ walked by that board a dozen times that day before lunch. The mentors avoided me for the rest of the year. π For the record, I liked the mentors, who were an older couple, and extraordinary agents. It’s just that they couldn’t train a grizzly to catch fish.
Taking an inexperienced agent under your wing and truly training them is what long term success is all about. Everything else is elevator music. For Heaven’s sake pick any local carpenter’s union in the country, and you’ll find they mentor their apprentices orders of magnitude more effectively than does the real estate industry with their new hopefuls. Does anyone reading this doubt that?
I’ve been over practicing what I preach with my son, Josh. Since November of 2004 I’ve been mentoring him within an inch of his life. He has more first hand experience in more aspects of investment real estate than most 10 year vets. Remember though, I threw him into the deepest part of the pool from Day 1. He went straight from college to investment real estate brokerage. Try that sometime.
He’s sat in on countless dozens of counseling sessions — first as the ‘speak when you’re spoken to’ trainee, then as a near equal as time passed. You could tell when he was rising to the next level — as I’d predicted to him, clients begin asking him questions with me just three feet away. Nice.
He’s appraised income properties in half a dozen states. Coordinated many multi-state multi-property tax deferred exchanges. Analyzed countless properties. If I wasn’t happy with his conclusions? “Sorry big guy. Nice effort, but here’s where you went astray. Try again with this in mind.” Cash flow analysis, negotiating in all kinds of markets — sometimes as the guy with the gun, sometimes the schmuck with the knife. Real life, especially in the real estate investment arena, ain’t always fair.
Literally hundreds of hours have been spent explaining the how and why of what we do. The intricacies of the tax code and how they should be looked upon as tools of the trade. Imagine an apprentice trained for over four years, 40+ hours a week first hand by the real life ‘go to’ guy. You think he might be ready for some freestyle action?
I realize four years is a long time. But there are good reasons. First, I’d removed the company from the local market as he came through the door. He had to learn everything kinda sorta backasswards, geographically speaking. Looking back, I think it was a blessing in disguise. In four years he’s done everything you can do on the investment side of the business, hands on, and in real time. He’s also had the advantage of learning while doing in other regions. He’s never generated a client of his own, which has been by my design. His learning experience has been in the lab 80% of the time, with only 20% being ‘theory’.
At this point though, he knows more with four plus years of experience than I did after 10. How is that possible? I had to go find and pay for my mentoring. Dad was a house guy, not an investment broker. Meanwhile I had to Gump my way through the maze of knowledge required to do business on the investment side. I had to stitch together a virtual mentor, made up of the giants of the industry back then. Fortunately most of them could be found in SoCal. Then I had to spend precious time and money going through the CCIM program. Josh will now go through it too, but most of it, because of his training will be review. I was constantly forced to reinvent the damn wheel.
Investment real estate resides in a whole different universe. You simply cannot fake your way in that world. It runs on a pass/fail basis — and failing isn’t an option. How would you respond if your ‘investment real estate agent’ cost you six figures in capital gains taxes because he really didn’t understand what he was talking about? Yeah, me too.
Josh has been almost literally chomping at the bit to get started. Since we’ve made the decision to again do business in San Diego, (price correction) he’s ready to role with our 1.0 marketing program. Of course that’s when Dad decides to relocate the office within walking distance of home. Then the phone company takes forever to hook us up. Blah blah blah. Now Monday is the day of reckoning. His tires will hit the pavement solo for the first time.
This means his first calendar year as a stand alone agent will be just less than 10 full months.
I’m treating him just like any other new agent — that is if I hired other agents. To hang your license with me you either have to share my DNA, or change your last name to Brown and look good in a skirt. π His first six transactions will be at a 50% commission. His next three will be at 70%. From that point on he’ll be an 80% guy.
Speaking of 80%, that’ll be the ratio of 1.0 vs 2.0 marketing for Josh. My prediction is he’ll easily surpass six figures in personal earnings for the year. Frankly, I think he’ll get it done before Halloween, but that’s probably Dad talking, right?
What would you give to have an operation with half a dozen Josh’s working for you, with that kind of in depth training under their belts? You’d have a lean mean money printing machine on your hands. Yet what passes for mentoring these days is an insult to serious rookies searching in vain for real teachers.
It’s relatively cheap to create your own new dynamos. As I told Josh the day he came on board, “I’m paying you real money even though you’re not worth it yet. Frankly, you should be paying me.” I paid him so little he rented a room from a long time friend to make ends meet. You earn your way at Brown and Brown. Blood only gets you through the door. As he became more and more valuable, far surpassing the aforementioned Dan, his pay increased. After a couple years he was virtually indispensable. I’m also pretty sure It helps that he’s smarter than I am.
Our clients now treat him as if they’re talking with me about 90% of the time. I don’t care how well they’re trained, 40 years can’t be passed on in four years. That 10% is me having been there, done that, in just about every circumstance you might conjure. He’ll get that last 10% in the next several years by doing, listening, and watching.
Seasoned pros? How much better would your operation or team be if you mentored them that intensely? If you’re a new agent, might it make sense for you to find a mentor who’ll commit to that kind of quality? Remember, most of those showing you the ropes concerning all the paperwork are doing two things. They’re earning extra money for themselves, and they’re insulating the brokerage from legal problems by ensuring you know a listing from a purchase contract. A monkey can teach you those things.
You want to make money, and you want to earn it as a professionally trained real estate agent. The good news? Becoming a real pro in the home selling side of the business doesn’t have to take years. It just takes a mutual commitment.
Back to the baseball analogy. Real estate ‘mentors’ these days, if teaching baseball, would be teaching their players what kind of wood the bats were made of, how many stitches are in a baseball, and how to properly wear their uniform. All the players wanna do is learn how to play baseball, and play it well. Even a 10 year old knows happy noise when he hears it.
A real mentor will show you how to become a well paid professional real estate agent — and he’ll do it in about a year.
So, where are the real mentors? Also, where are all those who complain about inferior training? Are you willing to sacrifice a year in return for the rest of your career? Or are you only interested in happy noise?
Brian Brady says:
“She explained how I was undermining the mentorβs position of authority. I replied that their authority was possibly a figment of their imaginations.”
Isn’t a mentor’s “authority” given by the mentee? The Peter Principle at work.
March 4, 2009 — 8:39 pm
Jeff Brown says:
On the money as usual. The teacher’s authority always flows directly from the respect earned from their students. Nothing is so naked as a teacher who has nothing to teach.
March 4, 2009 — 8:48 pm
Chris Johnson says:
And the crowd….goes…wild.
March 5, 2009 — 9:26 am
Cari McGee says:
I was agreeing, half-heartedly, until this paragraph –
Back to the baseball analogy. Real estate βmentorsβ these days, if teaching baseball, would be teaching their players what kind of wood the bats were made of, how many stitches are in a baseball, and how to properly wear their uniform. All the players wanna do is learn how to play baseball, and play it well. Even a 10 year old knows happy noise when he hears it.
And then I realized how exactly right you are. Thanks for a great post saying what a lot of people won’t like to hear, but should.
March 5, 2009 — 12:23 pm
Jeff Brown says:
Thanks Chris — As a former umpire, sometimes crowds going wild makes me a tad nervous. π
March 5, 2009 — 12:27 pm
Jeff Brown says:
Cari — I was pretty happy with that paragraph myself. π Much appreciated.
Were you mentored at all?
March 5, 2009 — 12:30 pm
Rob Hahn says:
This is probably the best post I’ve read in weeks.
My one question/comment is this:
A real mentor will show you how to become a well paid professional real estate agent β and heβll do it in about a year.
One year? That’s it? Does this strike anyone else as an extraordinarily short period of time to be a “professional” anything?
Lawyers go through four years of college, three years of law school, and aren’t even considered “real lawyers” until their third year of fulltime work. Even then, most firms would look at them as “inexperienced junior attorneys” until sometime in their sixth or seventh year.
Doctors and their “mentorship” are well-documented thanks to TV shows like Scrubs. But friends tell me that you’re not really considered a “real doctor” by your peers until you’ve had four to five years of experience in the biz.
I know you mentioned the 90% by training, and 10% by ‘being there’ but that still strikes me as an awfully ‘front-loaded’ thing here.
-rsh
March 5, 2009 — 1:02 pm
Jeff Brown says:
Rob — Thanks for your kind words. I should’ve been more detailed with my thoughts when it came to the time necessary to produce a real pro.
Let’s first agree real estate isn’t the practice of law, or anything akin to brain surgery. π Your point is well made though.
What passes as mentoring in real estate home sales today is laughable on a good day, and bordering on criminal on a bad one. I was talking about the same quality of mentoring I’ve given not just to Josh, but several kids before him. I’m also assuming the mentors themselves are literally deeply experienced pros, willing to have a mentee become attached to their hip for a year.
Take a 30 year old who’s just passed their license test. They’ve completed their in-house ‘protect the broker’ paperwork course. They’ve been through the local board’s various classes on MLS, etc. Now what?
As mentioned above, the mentor must be a real expert, not just some agent who’s figured out how to do more deals than the next guy. I’m talking expert in the Old School meaning of the word. Not just a pro, but a seasoned pro.
Remembering this is house sales, wouldn’t you agree they can be legitimately trained to be a professional after being trained 40-50 hours a week for a year? Agreed, they’d still be wet behind the ears, no doubt about that. Their experience though would be massively ahead of the curve. They would’ve learned so many of the required skill sets
I go back to my baseball analogy. There’s no guarantee of success in either industry, but what aspiring hitter has a better chance of making it — one taught by a run of the mill minor league batting coach, or one taught for a season by Tony Gwynn?
I guess my point is that your ‘year’ ain’t my year. My version of mentoring finds students logging a minimum of 2,000 hours with me. What do you think are a year’s worth of hours alloted to mentees by mentors in the average real estate office these days? A few hours a week — maybe?
IMHO, if a new agent can’t reach the minimum standards required to be called a professional real estate agent after 2,000 hours, they need to put an application in for a job at Von’s.
Am I making any sense to you? Thanks again.
March 5, 2009 — 1:50 pm
Erion Shehaj says:
As soon as I picked myself up from rolling on the floor laughing, this thought came to mind. Does the kind of mentoring you are suggesting, almost require DNA affiliation to work? My worry is that if someone is mentored into a rainmaker, wouldn’t they jump ship if you didn’t have the DISOWN card to play? π
Just a thought.
March 5, 2009 — 3:45 pm
Jeff Brown says:
Erion — Geez Bro, Sshhh, Josh reads some of this stuff. π
Seriously, Josh is only the most recent in a line of agents I’ve mentored. In 2001 and again in 2003 I mentored agents who came to me wanting to be trained. I told them what I required, and they hung in there. The first was Dan, in the post. The second was an agent now running hid own brokerage. That guy was second only to Josh in terms of learning curve and subsequent performance. But pretty much everyone I’ve mentored, stayed under my teaching for about a year.
It’s always my hope my students turn out to be far better than I ever was.
March 5, 2009 — 6:34 pm
Rodil San Mateo says:
You’re describing a new Realtor’s ideal way to enter the business in this post. This would be the best way for a new mortgage officer as well. The question is: Will an experienced pro be willing to take a newbie under their wing for this much time?
Like you said, in the beginning, the trainee should practically be paying the mentor for this experience. Does the mentor get enough benefit (in a bottom line kind of way) from this effort if the mentee only stays, say a year, after this training?
March 5, 2009 — 7:39 pm
Jeff Brown says:
Hey Rodil — That’s the sweet part. They’re always there, in client meetings, everywhere you go in the field, paperwork, you name it. Part of their learning process is becoming your indentured servant for a year. If you think that’s a bit hyperbolic, you should talk to me son. π
After a few trips around the block, they begin to have some real value as pack animals, so to speak. After awhile longer, they morph into pretty value assistants. They don’t make much, except for the key to the vault you’re giving them over the mentorship’s year or so.
If I had to pay Josh what he was worth after a year my mentoring him, he’d have been earning twice what the average full time house agent makes, easily. In the end, it’s a fair trade. The first couple months though are a bitch. π
Make sense?
March 5, 2009 — 9:38 pm
Cari McGee says:
Jeff –
I wasn’t mentored, no. I almost joined a brokerage with a mentor model, but instead joined a brokerage led by a very strong broker who made sure we knew every element of the purchase and sale agreement. We knew the letter of the law, that’s for sure. That’s why that paragraph in particular resonated with me because if it had been baseball I was learning about, you can bet I would have known the fundamentals you mentioned.
But as far as how to sell, what to do out in the field, etc., I remember we watched a lot of Floyd Wickman!
March 5, 2009 — 9:50 pm
Chris Lengquist says:
I finally sat down with a sandwich and beer and read this thesis. π Awesome.
To be a mentor, however, you need a mentee. Too many times I’ve had people come for help and lose interest before the first day is over. π
Being a mentee never stops, IMO. I’m still reading you and others and constantly making adjustments. Keep up the good crusade. You’re one of the good guys.
March 6, 2009 — 10:15 am
Jeff Brown says:
Hey Chris — Betcha it was a couple beers. Also, hope it was pulled pork from one of the places we had lunch.
You make such a truly salient point: Most who rush to be mentored don’t want to really do what it takes. They mostly wannabes who would much rather you hook them up to an ‘Expertise IV’ and be done with it.
As always, keep me in the loop for KC stuff. π
March 6, 2009 — 10:42 am
Matthew Hardy says:
Gawd, I just want to come and work for you now.
(I would be happy to change my name to Brown AND wear a brown skirt… science is doing wonderful things with DNA these days.)
An assessment on the quality of the teacher should be based on the success the teacher has had? How novel. I’ve had the pleasure and honor of working with folks at the EVP and SVP level at multi-billion dollar corporations, experienced small-group meetings that included the POTUS and congressional leaders and even hung out and played racquetball with a World Series winning pitcher. These folks talk different. Their perspective is different. It’s amazing that some in real estate who have miniscule real estate businesses themselves believe they have the chops to school others.
Here’s my new thing to say when speaking to real estate agents: read everything Jeff Brown has written.
Superb. Useful. Out-of-the-park good stuff.
March 6, 2009 — 5:18 pm
Karen Frederick says:
I spent my first two years as an assistant for the top producer in our small rural county earning 20% of what we brought in the door.Having worked the area for 25 years, she was able to teach me about our residential market,the lakes, the hows and most importantly the why’s of the business. I made valuable contacts with the “go to” people to get things done. And I worked on hundreds of transactions instead of the typical 15-20 of the typical rookies and many “seasoned veterans” in the area. She was generous with her knowledge and still is now that I’ve gone “solo” in the same office.
But, I wasn’t the only one learning. Compared to the “hounds” around here, I’m barely proficient technology wise. But to an office full of 25 year+ agents in a county where dial up was the norm…well let’s just say we started with email, drip campaigns, and virtual tours. She got the prospective of a different generation and my “knack for seeing things through the eyes of the consumer”. And of course she had someone else to do “the scut work”.
It’s a win-win for the mentor and the mentee. We both learned from each other, though I’m well aware I got the better end of the deal.
I enjoyed your post…and seeing things from the other side.
March 6, 2009 — 5:52 pm
Jeff Brown says:
I’m humbled, Matthew. Thank you so much.
When I learned bodybuilding it was from a world champion. When I learned how to be a baseball umpire it was from an experienced, retired MLB ump. Etc., etc.,
It all depend upon how important it is to the mentee.
March 6, 2009 — 6:01 pm
Jeff Brown says:
Karen — What a superbly on point example you are. The fact you were able to pay it back so quickly via your hi-tech ‘currency’ is perfect. Thanks for sharing — you’ve inspired who knows how many new agents.
March 6, 2009 — 7:12 pm
Dan Connolly says:
What a great post. I have been an agent for almost 25 years, and I want to be your next assistant! π
I started with limited in house training and the sink or swim type of beginnings. I drove a taxi at night. I took every seminar I could find and read every book on the subject there was. I took Floyd Wickman’s Sweathog cold calling course three times in the early years. I got certified as an appraiser, so I could do a real market analysis. It took me a long time to figure out how to succeed and I had many lean spells at the beginning. I wish I could have started the way you described.
I always suggest that new agents work as assistants for heavy hitters before they take the plunge. I don’t understand how someone can start now the way I did then.
March 7, 2009 — 10:02 pm
Jeff Brown says:
Dan — When you and I started the atmosphere was almost that of another planet compared to today. I switched to investments almost a decade before you, and it was even easier then to ‘seek out’ the giants of the industry willing to teach. Now everyone’s a so-called ‘giant’. π
Still, I bet you have some names of folks who pointed you in the right direction back in the day.
March 8, 2009 — 10:47 am
Dan Connolly says:
I definitely do. I didn’t buy into anyone completely (or even partially), I just took a little from each of the trainers in residential RE sales, Hopkins, Kennedy, Knox, Ferry, Britton, Butcher, Murphy, Stumph, Wickman, and the same from a bunch of the motivational type trainers as well.
The trick for me was to never stop learning, to morph with the changes and not to get stuck in a rut. Now most of my business comes online and is about 70/30 Investors/homeowners.
March 8, 2009 — 11:45 am
James Boyer says:
Man you write a book sometimes. It was a good story, and you are right the real estate industry is very poor at teaching their own.
In fact some of the most successful agents I have known have flat out refused to teach anyone, for fear of creating competition I guess. One Keller Williams agent I knew when I lived and worked in Delaware would not teach anyone anything, unless they would sign a 3 year agreement to be his buyers agent in which they were to turn over 50% of any commission they earned for that full 3 years. Yuck!!!
March 11, 2009 — 3:08 pm
Jeff Brown says:
James — i do tend to go long, but only because I refuse to give short shrift to the topics I choose. That, or I’m just not that good of a writer. π
I’ve heard similar stories to your KW experience.
March 11, 2009 — 6:29 pm