Thanks to Greg Swann for his gracious invitation. Posting on the 900 pound gorilla known as Bloodhound is a feather in anyone’s cap. I’m not sure there’s more than five sites in the country creating more ripples than he does. You set the bar pretty high Greg.
Before I begin – God bless Russell Shaw. Until he came along I almost always felt like the Lone Ranger on most subjects the real estate blog-world considered earth shatteringly important. I’ve enjoyed his posts on various subjects, and have found myself wondering if my dad had another son he never told me about. Anyone who has ever read my comments on blogs discussing the latest ‘hot topics’ will easily discern how much he and I agree with each other.
Buyer representation? National MLS? Dual agency? NAR for heaven’s sake? Give me a break. Until I became a blogger I was both ignorant and apathetic about what opinions were held by others in the industry on those subjects. The only thing that has changed is the entertainment I sometimes enjoy while reading about them.
I read Russell’s dual agency post and laughed so hard I spewed my morning coffee all over my wife’s cat. He absolutely nailed it to the wall. Remember the Clint Eastwood movie, Suddent Impact? That was Russell’s way of saying, “Go ahead, make my day.” But, I was invited to post my take on dual agency, and I’ll do that now.
In the 1960’s I worked for a real estate firm that had six offices and give or take 40 agents. About 75% of the agents were full time. In the two years I was the janitor, and printer (mimeograph) of new listings, they closed over 1,000 transactions – 100% of which were dual agency sales. (Quick, get Greg a chair, he’s looking a little pale.) That same firm also escrowed the sales. And if an agent was caught showing another broker’s listings, he was fired on the spot. The company’s broker/owner didn’t cooperate with outside brokers – as policy. How could that work you ask? His company always had more listings under $20,000 (the magic number back then) than the entire MLS. He didn’t need them. They needed him. And everyone knew it.
(Note: Just for the record, this broker didn’t employ nepotism very well either. Starting your son in the family business as the janitor for two years sends a pretty clear message, don’t you think? Dad was one of a kind.)
When inevitably the green monster of envy emerged, in the form of an anonymous complaint to the DRE – he was unceremoniously audited within an inch of his life. The auditor handed his card to the broker when he’d concluded his work, and said, “If you are contacted by the DRE about any broker’s complaint ever again, give me a call. Your files are the cleanest I’ve ever seen. If I ever decide to move, you will get my listing.”
It seems when the smoke cleared, integrity was what mattered. Integrity is the ultimate trump card.
Because Russell literally made most of my points for me, especially his last paragraph, which simply said agents must be honest, I’m going to give examples. I find it silly to even have to debate this subject, since most of the time it revolves around a perception and not reality. Marketing deals with perception. Our behavior in the service of our clients must be more valuable than that. It must be real. Our clients must have faith in us and our integrity, not merely a perception.
I work in the investment side of real estate. A large part of my business is tax deferred exchanges. But simply put, I make people wealthy. They pay less taxes, retire very well, and retire early.
Without boring you with tax law details, there are times in an exchange that can put investors at risk of owing capital gains taxes. If a deal falls through at a critical point in the exchange, it can result in huge tax consequences, regardless of whose fault it was. In my experience this usually comes up when I’ve sold a clients income property as the first stage of an exchange. There is a 45 day window from the time that sale closes in which the seller must ‘identify’ the property they will be exchanging into, using the equity from the recently closed sale. If that property is listed by an outside broker who somehow causes the escrow to fall out, and the 45 days has passed – my client is rendered helpless. He can no longer take advantage of a tax deferred exchange, and will now owe whatever capital gains tax applies to that property.
This is why my clients PREFER to purchase properties I’ve listd. They know the other client is also exchanging for tax reasons and are equally motivated to perform. They also like that I’m in control of both sides. Wait, it gets better.
I tell my clients, in writing, that if I sell their property myself it is likely to be at a lower price than if another broker from the MLS brought their buyer to the table. Now this is where the chorus chimes in – “That’s at least the perception of evil! This is why dual agency is so wrong. Blah blah blah, yadda yadda yadda. The next question is why sell for a little less, right? I’m glad you asked.
90% of the properties I sell for my clients are 1-4 unit rentals. Most of the buyers are represented by agents who couldn’t find their backsides with two guides, a map, and a GPS when it comes to income property. They pay more than my clients would. My clients make the decision to sell for a tad less, (usually 1-3%) because of the peace of mind they have knowing the sale, and therefore the tax deferred excchange is going to conclude successfully. Paying $50-100,000 in capital gains taxes because some house agent wannabe decides to dabble in investments isn’t worth getting $10,000 more for their property.
And for the record, I charge six percent – period. Of course, all this is disclosed to the max. I usually end up introducing the clients to each other, and some have become friends. They all have a signed, written disclosure by me on my letterhead, making my relationship with all parties nakedly transparent. One of the common denominators that makes this attractive to my clients is the knowledge that they’re buying property that hasn’t been broadcast to the public. (Yes, Greg, I have letters in the file specifically instructing me NOT to put their listings on the MLS.) They don’t have to compete with other buyers, making it even more of a seamless transaction. And the sellers prefer this approach for the above mentioned reasons. (I’ve always been told repitition is the best teacher.)
When I give ‘mini-seminars’ in their homes, attended by their friends, neighbors, and family, it’s more lkely than not that they’ve actually invited another client of mine to attend. It’s pretty effective when investors hear from satisfied clients that dual agency is the way to go. This is especially true when some of the attendees have experienced exchanges gone sideways do to an outside house broker’s poor performance.
Ultimately the reasons my clients do business with me is the same reason Russell’s and Greg’s clients do business with them: They both offer solid value, expertise, and results. And both operate with INTEGRITY. My clients come to me because they want to increase net worth, retire as soon as possible, and with as much tax sheltered or tax free income as they can possibly create. I give them just that. Or, like Russell said so eloquently – When an investor hires me to make these things happen for them, and are willing to pay me for it, (pause for a little drama) they expect me to MAKE THOSE THINGS HAPPEN.
I’ll end with a very quick summary of an actual case study.
The Carters came to me almost six years ago with just under $70,000 to invest, solid credit, and great ambition. They’re now both retired at the ages of 42 and 37, making more than the combined $100,000 they were making from their previous day jobs. We’ve now done roughly six major transactions involving over three dozen properties in two states. All but one of the transactions were tax deferred exchanges. The first four transactions included dual agency 75% of the time. The Carters are now worth just under $2Mil, and live on $150-200,000 a year – tax free. They have so much tax write-off they can sell properties for cash at will without paying a dime of capital gains taxes. They’ve gone from a little starter track home to a home worth just under a million bucks.
Mention dual agency to them and they get happy feet while singing the song, “I don’t wanna work, I wanna bang on the drum all day”. π
Dual agency is a non-issue debated by folks who are either jealous or, to give them the benefit of the doubt, afraid of what others might think of them. I have no problem with those who disagree with me and avoid dual agency as policy. I admire them for walking their talk. I think most of them are sincere in their beliefs.
I just think they’re sincerely wrong. Integrity should always triumph over perception. When perception wins, we all lose. Perception is a bully that doesn’t have anything else to say, so the issue is framed by how it might appear. To those who are on the fence, I say, grow a pair. Look others in the eye and stand on the platform of your integriy.
Dual agency is simply not an issue worth of all this drama. And Russell – thanks for riding with me!
Reuben Moore says:
Jeff –
I too come from real estate blood. I grew up in a very rural area without a MLS, and the handful of local brokers fought like cats and dogs. Dual agency was not an option, but a necessity.
Now, our Broker, my mother, fit your bill to a tee – unquestioned integrity. And, she practiced dual agency fairly and honestly and her clients benefited from the policy.
But, with all due respect to you, and Mr. Shaw, and to all the readers of this, and to all of our real estate colleagues, I am sorry, but sadly, I do question your presumption that all agents share your level of integrity.
Perception? The reason we focus on perception is that these cases (lapses in integrity) are terribly difficult to prove. But we have all seen them.
If we could only require agents to pass some sort of integrity test….
Now, I am one of those you mentioned who is “on the fence.” I have seen dual agency done well and I have seen the system cheat clients. I am looking forward to this ongoing debate.
November 18, 2006 — 1:47 pm
Benjamin says:
Hey Jeff
Awesome post. I deal with dual agency on all my investment listings. Most of the time investors contact the Realtor who has a property listed. The exception I’ve found with this is when I have an investor looking for property referred to me by a lender, which i happening with more and more frequency these days. When integrity is involved, client’s are represented well, whether they have sole or dual representation.
November 18, 2006 — 6:06 pm
Jeff Brown says:
Reuben – From one son to another, I feel your pain. π I agree with your observation on integrity, and some of the bad apples. Our industry is no different than any other. And certainly there is zero presumption on my part imputing my standards to other agents.
But that’s not relevant Reuben. If they’re bad guys in dual agency they’re good guys otherwise? We both know that’s not true. Those wanting to abolish dual agency forward this false argument as if the public is never injured in a single agency transaction.
Perception is, as I wrote, the last bastion of those who have nothing to say. It’s the bully’s way of saying, “Oh yeah?” but with a menacing tone and threatening body language. That’s when much of our industry begins nodding their heads in wise agreement.
I bet your clients trust you Reuben, and not just from a foundation of perception. They’ve seen, heard, and observed you being honest, transparent, straight-forward, and professional. I’ll bet they don’t hesitate a second when presented with a dual agency situation with you as the agent.
So stick to your guns and don’t give in to the folks egging you on to be afraid of your shadow. π Write dual agency contracts when they are a fit, and leave the whiners behind.
Just like baseball, there’s no crying in real estate.
November 18, 2006 — 7:04 pm
Jeff Brown says:
Benjamin, it’s good to hear from you.
I watched my son play baseball today in the AAA hardball league. It was 86 degrees, and the players’ girlfriends were lookin’…….very supportive. π What’s it like in Toronto?
You make an excellent point. Many times an investment broker is literally put into dual agency situations like the one you described. I’ve been there myself.
Thanks again for the kind words.
November 18, 2006 — 7:13 pm
ardell dellaloggia says:
I’ve done them all over the years. Dual agency, Designated Agency, Sub-Agency, Transaction Brokerage. It’s not about the type of agency, it’s about conflict of interest, which we all have to deal with regardless of the type of agency. We even have to deal with it when we have 2 or 3 buyers who want the same kind of porperty in the same price range. You can’t remove all conflicts from this business…you have to learn how to deal with them.
Truth is most agents need to learn how not to put themselves first, their biggest conflict of interest.
I’ve done many Dual Agency transactions over the years. Honestly? They were the best ones. Why? Because I knew both parties and how to meet the objectives of both, find the happy medium. Some of my happiest clients are the ones where I was a Dual Agent. Never had a complaint from a Dual Agency deal.
November 18, 2006 — 10:56 pm
Russell Shaw says:
Jeff said, “Dual agency is simply not an issue worth of all this drama. And Russell – thanks for riding with me!”
The feeling is mutual, Jeff! I enjoy your posts, as well. I did not spew coffee on the cat but now have that as an option. So thanks!
November 19, 2006 — 12:11 am
Todd Tarson says:
The key I still see is all parties agree and everything is transparent, and I can make a case that investment property sales is a different animal than more typical transactions on single family homes that typically the non trained novice Realtor gets involved with.
I hated working for both sides in a transaction since I started in this business. Sometimes it IS neccessary though and would never think that it needs to be totally outlawed.
I use this with clients, if you were heading to a legal proceeding where you would need representation — would you hire the same attorney that the other party did?? Often it is the same in this very business, the client needs sole representation, espeically since we are talking about 6 figure dollar amounts in transactions. Or, what the client DOESN’T need is ONE representative handling ALL of the issues for HIS benefit. I see the latter too much when I sit on ethic’s panels and to be honest it scares the hell out of me.
Greg says later in this series that he’d have no problem hiring Jeff, Russell, or Ardell in a dual agency situation and I agree. But you guys aren’t the rule, you are the exception and this industry won’t be able to move you all in the ‘rule’ group fast enough while purging those you’d never consider hiring to handle both sides of a transaction.
Money was too easy to make at the start of this decade and many agents and broker took too much advantage of clients, and this is why I am uncomfortable with promoting dual agency.
November 20, 2006 — 7:53 am
Jeff Brown says:
Todd – The points you make are well founded, and I can’t make myself disagree, in general.
However, the real problem is those very Boards who deal with ‘ethics’ violations concerning dual agency either have no teeth or won’t bite when they should. It’s a joke, and it’s universal.
I compare it to guns. They’re not bad, but if we executed every murderer who used a gun, and did it quickly, gun crimes would dwindle. In real estate, even when the DRE is involved, an agent has to be caught on video doing heinous acts to lose his license for 30 days, or get a ‘restricted’ license.
The handicaps inherent in dual agency have most agents feeling as you do. And as I wrote in my last post, I agree, just not all the time.
Good to hear from you Todd.
November 20, 2006 — 9:32 am
Todd Tarson says:
Jeff, you said…
>>However, the real problem is those very Boards who deal with ‘ethics’ violations concerning dual agency either have no teeth or won’t bite when they should. It’s a joke, and it’s universal.
I understand this perception. Let me add though, that I know for a fact that one of the panels I was on this past year that we ‘retired’ a fellow Member. The punishment wasn’t really that harsh but the Respondant won’t fulfill the terms. That party was wrong and knew it and we are talking about a long time broker. It was time for that person to hang it up and they know it.
Now this was an extreme finding and of course I know that sometimes the punishment is never enough for some of the things that are done… but at least in AZ… it seems to be happening.
I find the Pro Standards Committee to be the most vital of the many things I volunteer my time for on behalf of this profession. It is something I do not take lightly and also feel it is the one place I can have the most affect. But I am one, and there is so much to be done. We can sit back and say that it is a ‘joke’ or whatever, but nothing changes with that attitude.
While I don’t like dual agency at present, I’m the one in there fighting for the likes of you, Russell, and Ardell (and she’s not even a paying Member). Meanwhile, if I was dictator of the department of real estate I’d change dual agency in a big way… not because of the likes of you… but because of the likes of Realtors that I’ve had to ‘retire’.
November 20, 2006 — 3:48 pm
Jeff Brown says:
>We can sit back and say that it is a ‘joke’ or whatever, but nothing changes with that attitude.
Hey, I apologize for the attitude, but in 37 years I’ve not seen one guy ‘retired’ by any of the local Boards. Even the DRE bends over backwards to avoid ‘capital punishment’ for agents who don’t have the ethics of a pimp.
>While I don’t like dual agency at present, I’m the one in there fighting for the likes of you, Russell, and Ardell (and she’s not even a paying Member). Meanwhile, if I was dictator of the department of real estate I’d change dual agency in a big way… not because of the likes of you… but because of the likes of Realtors that I’ve had to ‘retire’.
Although dual agency may be an easier canvas on which the unethical agent can paint his masterpiece, the vast majority of injurious licensee behavior is committed via single agency transactions. Evil knows no bounds.
As for changing dual agency, I’m not sure how that is possible. Since I do it so relatively often, I’ve developed a mental checklist.
I first tell both parties they’re a match, kind of like RealtorHarmony. π Then I tell them to expect comps in their email, establishing what I think the property in question is worth.
Once I hear from both that they’re happy with a certain price, and that price makes sense for both, I draw up the offer, and we go to escrow. They both know each other has exactly the same info.
More than once, as a time saver, I simply had them both in my office and we banged out a fair deal. In investments folks aren’t concerned about who pays a $300 warranty, when they’re trying to make sure the IRS won’t get $100K from a botched exchange attempt.
By the way, how do you know no client of mine has ever had to pay capital gains taxes due to a screwed up exchange?
Because I’m writing this and still breathing on my own.
November 20, 2006 — 9:16 pm
Todd Tarson says:
Jeff, no biggie on my attitude either please understand. It’s just that this dog likes to hunt.
Everyday I probably am losing ‘some’ commission because of my other activities I volunteer for in this business. I don’t ask anyone to feel sorry for me for this though as I think I am doing the right thing. In fact some time down the road, perhaps after 37 years in the biz, the ‘other’ activities will more than repay me double over.
I simply go back and forth on the dual agency issue. Competent Realtors can provide this level of service and make all parties happy, and you are right about a different agent screwing things up for a client on a single side representation just as easily.
What burns me up is when a potential client comes in off the street and says, ‘show me YOUR listings’. I ask them why they want me to show them ‘mine’ and they will tell me that the last Realtor they talked to would only show them ‘theirs’ and are shocked when I tell them that I could show them ‘any’ home on the market. The previous agent is my enemy… (along with brokers… but that is another argument for another day).
November 21, 2006 — 8:13 am
ardell dellaloggia says:
Todd,
I once met a guy who was in escrow on three houses. He said the agents he called would only show him their listing, so he “tied it up” until he had a chance to see a few houses. Three houses, three different agents, three escrows, because the agents would only show him “their” listing.
I did go look at them all with him. Cancelled all the escrows without loss of earnest money. Funny thing is, the one he bought through me ended up to be…Dual Agency…technically/legally LOL. Wasn’t “my” listing, but that was CA and “the one” turned out to be the listing of one of the agents in my office.
November 21, 2006 — 11:43 am