I mentioned the Saturday Afternoon Marketing Circle yesterday. Richard Riccelli, Jeff Brown, Teri Lussier and I have been talking about an ugly marketing problem and how to get around it. I left off last night with this:
You can’t market into indifference or into firmly-established error. You can only persuade people who are listening to you.
I could go further than that to say that people only change their behavior in significant ways when the pain of their errors exceeds their inertia in emending them. In that respect, this real estate market is a good friend to Realtors like us, who intend to do a whole lot more to earn the business. In a normal market, no one is listening. Right now, a lot of people are tuned into the idea of better and worse results.
That notwithstanding, Teri offers up this observation to the idea that “you can’t market into indifference or into firmly-established error”:
Why not? I’m not being a snot, I really don’t understand why you’d say this. Can’t great (legendary) marketing overcome a wide variety of objections?
We want to teach salesmanship at Unchained in Orlando, and this question illustrates why we want to cover this stuff. To wit:
An objection is a buying sign.
If someone raises an objection to something you’ve said, they’re not only already listening to you, they’re listening hard. If you can pull out every objection and address them satisfactorily, you’ll make a sale. In many ways objections are better than placid acceptance, since the placidity may be masking unstated objections.
But that’s not what Teri and I are talking about. The issue is this: How do you get the attention of people who are already consciously or subconsciously convinced that they don’t want to hear what you have to say?
Teri put it this way in our discussion:
So your weakness is not marketing listed homes, but marketing to convince the seller to do things your way from the beginning.
But exactly. Our efforts are remarkable. Our results, even in this market, have been very strong compared to the agents we compete against. But as I discussed with Jeff the other day, most sellers aren’t paying attention to the factors that make a difference in getting their homes sold. It’s not that everyone is not paying attention at all. The problem is that many of those who are don’t know how, objectively, to judge the results they see.
So how do you break through that wall of silence — indifference and entrenched error? How do you get people who already don’t intend to listen to you to listen anyway?
As it happens, this is what Richard Riccelli does for a living. As Realtors or lenders, we are lucky enough to sell a product that our customers already know they want. Richard’s job is to sell products — magazine and added-value web site subscriptions and renewals — that his customers are already all but certain they don’t want. How does he overcome what is not just indifference but actual aversion and get them to write the check anyway?
Richard’s answer is Teri’s answer: Make an irresistible offer. Lend me your mind for a few minutes. I’ll give you a gift now, and I’ll show you how to reap even more benefits in the future.
In other words: I acknowledge that you are indifferent to my message or convinced in advance that I am wrong. I want to compensate you for indulging me in my madness for a brief moment.
This is direct marketing. Richard does it by mail, but you can do it by telephone or by email or face-to-face. You haven’t actually solved the problem of indifference or error — or outright hostility — you’ve just attacked it with a lateral move. If I can induce you to listen to me, I have a chance of persuading you. So if I can’t get you to listen to me as a consequence of your own perceived long-term self-interest, let’s change the game and give you something else to be interested in for a few minutes.
We haven’t done these things, but here are a couple of direct marketing ideas we have considered:
- Buying wholesale quantities of a book that would be of interest to homeowners in our target markets and handing it out door-to-door — face-to-face — belly-to-belly. It won’t do any good if they don’t look you in the eye.
- Offering a Starbucks gift card in exchange for a ten-minute appointment to talk about the real estate market and how to sell homes quickly and for the biggest return. “You give me ten minutes, I’ll give you ten bucks.”
Here’s a direct marketing idea Richard and I have discussed that I can’t do:
“Dear Home Seller: Here is why your house isn’t selling. Call me so we can discuss how to correct these defects in your marketing strategy.”
Richard did exactly this in a post about Everywhere magazine. He got one comment: “This is brilliant!” Who sent it? The circulation guru for Everywhere magazine.
This is capitalism, right? Here’s a way my company can help you get better results. The seller of a home that is not moving could not possibly be more interested in learning what’s going wrong. Indifference? Not hardly. Error? Possibly, but it’s no longer firmly-entrenched. It’s one good kick away from sailing into the gutter.
So why can’t I do this? This is obviously the most effective kind of marketing we could do, selling directly to people we know are avid — ravenous — to hear a better way of doing things.
The problem is is the National Association of Realtors Code of Ethics, of course:
Article 16: Realtors shall not engage in any practice or take any action inconsistent with exclusive representation or exclusive brokerage relationship agreements that other Realtors have with clients.
That one sentence is enough to convict the NAR of being anti-consumer, ant-competitive and anti-capitalist. The recently entombed DOJ/FTC suit was a complete joke. That one sentence is an abomination to the principles of free enterprise.
This is what the NAR is saying in that sentence: Homeowners can go to hell. It doesn’t matter that their most precious asset is being squandered away by incompetent marketing. What matters is protecting incompetent Realtors from competition. This is the purpose of the real estate licensing laws — written by the NAR — and it is the motivation behind everything the NAR does.
That one we’ll have to leave, for now. I can’t think of any better way to flush the bums out of our industry that to point out, in no uncertain terms, why they are bums, but this is not permitted by the NAR cartel. So be it.
Let’s go back to Teri’s question instead. I said: “You can’t market into indifference or into firmly-established error.” Teri’s retort:
Why not? I’m not being a snot, I really don’t understand why you’d say this. Can’t great (legendary) marketing overcome a wide variety of objections?
What answers can you offer to this question? How can you penetrate either indifference or an erroneous certainty in the minds of your prospects?
Technorati Tags: real estate, real estate marketing, real estate training
Richard Riccelli says:
Instead of …
Offering a Starbucks gift card in exchange for a ten-minute appointment to talk about the real estate market and how to sell homes quickly and for the biggest return. “You give me ten minutes, I’ll give you ten bucks.”
why not…
A 20-minute workshop on “Which Phoenix homes are selling for 95% of asking price and why” IN your local Starbucks (after all they say they are hurting for sit-and-stay business) … featuring happy sellers who just made a sale recounting their case history.
Workshops always attract the most motivated … and those who attend are self selected. If they are active listers, and chose to show up on their own, are you in violation of “Article 16?”
July 20, 2008 — 10:17 am
Greg Swann says:
> If they are active listers, and chose to show up on their own, are you in violation of “Article 16?”
No. A broadcast solicitation is allowed under 16.2 — we’ve had to fight for this right in the past. And sellers can initiate conversations about what we might do differently under a hypothetical future listing contract — 16.6.
We’ve talked about this before — seller’s seminars instead of the ubiquitous buyer’s seminars — but the addition of Starbucks is interesting. The Starbucks locations in the neighborhoods we work in are mostly retrofits, so they have a lot of seating.
July 20, 2008 — 10:28 am
David G from Zillow.com says:
As you know, I’m a big fan of objection-based marketing. But it doesn’t always work and I think the distinction lies in the motive for the objection. It works best when objections are naive or ill-informed and the objector is genuinely open to learning. In the FSBO seller scenario for example, you’re looking for someone who doesn’t care how their home sells as long as it sells – not someone who has set about to prove that Realtors are unnecessary (even if it costs them money to do so.) Reasoning with the latter will most often be an exercise in futility (unless it’s on a blog where you can at least influence the critic’s audience.) So, objection-based marketing seldom works when the objections are maliciously motivated (Hi Joe!) but the good news is that’s its usually easy to tell the difference.
Word of warning on this; fear-based marketing is a common but unintelligent way to address objections. It’s disrespectful and frankly, IMO, hard to argue that it’s ethical. Don’t make this mistake; it could hurt your reputation and it is already hurting the reputation of the profession in general. If legal liability is your only pitch you are replaceable by an insurance policy. Focus on being a problem-solver not a problem-finder. I raise this because I just learned that fear-based marketing is integral to some Realtors’ supplemental training. See this discussion for more details:
http://www.zillow.com/forum/site/ViewThread.htm?tid=37556
July 20, 2008 — 10:33 am
Greg Swann says:
>> Sean Purcell said: “One of the wittiest retorts I have ever read.”
> David Gibbons said: “Hi Joe!”
David wins.
July 20, 2008 — 10:42 am
Greg Swann says:
But this
is just funny. Welcome to real estate, David. Sleazoids abound. I should pull the text from Hopkins on using water-heater corrosion to scare the shit out of FSBOs.
Even if we could, we wouldn’t market to listed homes with negatives, nor even with a direct appeal for the business. You give to get, so the ideal way to do this — or to appeal to FSBO sellers right now — would be to give them free marketing ideas they could deploy on their own, without listing with us. The fact is, in Phoenix, the people most likely to attend to and adopt our kind of marketing ideas are the FSBOs. The listing agents do what they’ve always done, but the by-owner sellers pay attention.
Here’s an example of how to leverage give-to-get to get appintments: Cathleen is a certified stager, and we do staging for free as a part of the package you get when you list with us. We could make a broadcast offer to give staging advice — selling or not — and this would be an excellent foot-in-the-door appointment to talk about radical marketing ideas in general. No violation of Article 16, but belly-to-belly meetings with self-selected volunteers.
July 20, 2008 — 10:53 am
David G from Zillow.com says:
Lovely. I’m well aware that I’m preaching to the choir here but it’s not like I have much influence on the fear-mongers in the pews so I just pray that you folks pass it on somehow. 😉
July 20, 2008 — 10:58 am
David G from Zillow.com says:
“and we do staging for free as a part of the package you get when you list with us”
AWESOME. Now that’s how I would define “full service”
July 20, 2008 — 10:59 am
Greg Swann says:
> AWESOME. Now that’s how I would define “full service”
Go here. Our feeling is that if we can get potential sellers to that one page, we should be able to convert at least half of them.
It’s not enough to build a better mousetrap. For the world to beat a path to your door, it has to know you’ve built a better mousetrap — and know why it’s truly better. This is marketing’s job.
July 20, 2008 — 11:07 am
Richard Riccelli says:
To David, G of Zillow, who wrote:
“I’m a big fan of objection-based marketing. But it doesn’t always work and I think the distinction lies in the motive for the objection.”
Precisely. Yours is a sublime and sophisticated observation … it goes to a level deeper than answering objections … and is at the core of what is true brilliance in selling as opposed to simple, journeyman marketing. The breakthroughs, the quantum leaps, the birthing of giants come from tapping into motivations / aspirations / self identity and the like. It’s rare, but powerful, and when achieved, unstoppable.
Excellent insight.
July 20, 2008 — 12:23 pm
David G from Zillow.com says:
Richard – Thank you, what a compliment!
July 20, 2008 — 1:22 pm
Teri Lussier says:
My day’s slowed down enough that I can take a stab at this, since you’ve already outed me. eek. Be gentle.
>people only change their behavior in significant ways when the pain of their errors exceeds their inertia in emending them.
That’s why expireds make sense? Bracing myself. I’ll assume you don’t chase expireds. Why not? You can then use the Riccelli Dear Seller method.
Another idea: You want a very specific market. Cherry pick the exact homes you want to sell and send them personalized marketing ideas. Very personal, very specific to their property. Marketing plans for their home. Flyers on similar properties that didn’t sell and a hint or two on what you would have done differently. Drip, drip. Okay, that’s probably not something you’d do either.
Have Cathy go door to door with the book, or create your own neighborhood book with your mac. You have districts or neighborhoods that you’ve done well in- showcase those glorious photos and descriptions. Shove some of those bang tail blow-ins (I just wanted to use that phrase) in the book with a brilliant 3 word wet benefit. Not every house gets one, only special houses. Create curiosity, or envy, or lust.
One more: Cathy offers staging advice to select homes or neighborhoods during the holidays?
Annnd that’s all I got.
July 20, 2008 — 7:08 pm
Greg Swann says:
> I’ll assume you don’t chase expireds. Why not?
We don’t. They get hammered by bottom-feeders, so there’s not much chance of penetrating the clutter. We hear from a lot of expireds, and some of our best results have come with second and third listings.
> Cherry pick the exact homes you want to sell and send them personalized marketing ideas.
We’ve thought about doing something like this by buying the domain an building a preliminary web site. Too creepy?
> Have Cathy go door to door with the book, or create your own neighborhood book with your mac.
That’s an excellent idea.
Tell us: What do you do when you go door to door? What do you take with you? Do you give people anything? What do you say?
July 20, 2008 — 10:52 pm
Teri Lussier says:
>They get hammered by bottom-feeders, so there’s not much chance of penetrating the clutter. We hear from a lot of expireds, and some of our best results have come with second and third listings.
I think this screams of a prime opportunity for you to blow away the clutter, one way might be:
>We’ve thought about doing something like this by buying the domain an building a preliminary web site. Too creepy?
Creepy? Sorta, but also shows more positive traits. Send a postcard, or hand deliver with just the url to a website you’ve created somehow incorporating their address into the url? You could have the Dear Seller letter on the site.
If you watch those homes you want, but know they are going to expire, and have the site built, have a postcard with the url waiting for them with the morning paper. It’s aggressive- probably a lot of stuff you hate, but what would you think if you were in the expired’s shoes? I’d at least take a look at the site, which is a huge foot in the door for you. I’m not sure that would work for the typical Realtor, but for BHR- try it. Test it.
I can tell you that the purpose for my door knocking is basically two fold: Get people to see my url- brand awareness- and to get in front of people. For the most part, people seem to respond positively to both me and my site, so I’m rarely greeted with indifference. The people that are the most vocal with their indifference are also the most vocal. The big family table has prepared me for that.
OTOH, The door knocking is an interesting problem. I’ve done some, but the neighborhoods I’ve chosen are probably not the best fit for a variety of reasons, no need to go into that here. Jeff Brown is very adamant about choosing the right neighborhood, and I’m not sure I’ve done that. I’m kinda stumped as to where to go, but that’s off subject.
Prebuilding a site: What if…What if the site was built as a gift? We are Realtors, we love homes, we love your home, we love your neighborhood, we built this site for you, please enjoy and share with your friends and family in Canada.
Or. All the hyperlocal advice you’ve given me? Put that to work for yourself.
July 21, 2008 — 4:59 am
Don Reedy says:
Teri and Greg,
If you build a modest web site a la Teri’s idea of “we love your home”, and if you then show them what that site could look like if Cathleen and all the tools you bring to the table were joined up with them, I think you’d have a killer marketing idea.
I have this idea of going to the client and saying to them, we are going to create a COMPLETE story about your home for you to have personally, and to use when you sell your home. The web site would have the following:
1.(For the sake of space) – Everything you currently provide.
2. PDF files of all warranties, repairs, plans, documents that would benefit the next home owner.
3. Pictures of all gas and water outlets with how to use, where they are located.
4. Pictures of plants with client provided descriptions, care hints, etc.
5. Articles of interest re the neighborhood.
In effect, you would prime the pump with a “good faith” web site that should get their attention. Once you have that attention, you demonstrate to them what their site could look like, why that would be a benefit, and why they should list with you.
July 21, 2008 — 7:51 am
Teri Lussier says:
My early morning brainstorming is not always a good idea… 😉
>In effect, you would prime the pump with a “good faith” web site that should get their attention.
Or might make them feel obligated? Stalked?
This needs to bake for awhile…
July 21, 2008 — 9:01 am
Don Reedy says:
Teri,
Think in reverse.
Let’s say you had a program I’ll call the PLATINUM PROGRAM to be extremely trite. This would be a program where the seller of the home would be able to provide extraordinary information to potential buyers of their home sometime in the future. Think of this as a service provided BY THE SELLERS, with the marketing saavy and help of the agent, for the benefit of the seller’s marketing plans for their home, and for the benefit of any potential buyer.
This is the kind of program that mirrors what Zillow is trying to be to the real estate community in toto, but in our case, we are going to market the idea to individual homeowners.
When I, as a seller, have all the data I talked about above, on a disk, or better yet, on the web with my own url, and I can make all that information available to my potential buyers, I gain enormous advantage. Who doesn’t remember buying a home only to kill plants they knew nothing about, spend money finding a buried pipe, trying to get information on an old appliance, figuring out who built the deck addition, etc? With our new program, we are going to build (from the ground up) a service platform for sellers that will uniformly and thoroughly provide much, much more information on the seller’s home.
I’m beginning to froth with what I see as potential, and I think “stalking” is clearly off the mark. There is simply no obligation whatsoever. To the contrary. “If we build it (the system I describe), they will come.” We won’t be obligating, we’ll be obliging.
July 21, 2008 — 12:01 pm
Teri Lussier says:
>This would be a program where the seller of the home would be able to provide extraordinary information to potential buyers of their home sometime in the future. Think of this as a service provided BY THE SELLERS, with the marketing saavy and help of the agent, for the benefit of the seller’s marketing plans for their home, and for the benefit of any potential buyer.
This is the kind of program that mirrors what Zillow is trying to be to the real estate community in toto, but in our case, we are going to market the idea to individual homeowners.
Once they are listed, I agree.
I was thinking, or not thinking as the case might be, of marketing to potential clients. To have something like this set up prior to a listing contract would be intrusive? Offensive? Creepy? Stalkerish.
Perhaps it’s in the presentation?
Gotta finish baking (which means it’s still half-baked). 🙂
July 21, 2008 — 1:56 pm
Thomas Johnson says:
Don: At some point would you not have to password protect that information? In the BHR praxis, these are unique homes to be sure, but they also house high net worth families. I have heard that there is some privacy blow back about Google Earth and Zillow (I have had no objections in my Zestifarm).
There is huge benefit in a Realtor knowing the neighborhood. How invasive can or should our demonstration of that knowledge be? It is one thing to tell an owner that they have a wonderful granite island in their kitchen at a face to face meeting. It is something else to post that granite island installed by Tom’s Kitchens at a cost of $xxx, permit #yyy with the pasta pot faucet installed by Fred’s Plumbing, all permits and diagrams posted as .PDF files. Although there is some interesting co-branding and co-sponsorship opportunity there, it might be a little scary. Are homeowners ready for this kind of transparency?
Is the value add for us some kind of web based house info site hosted on our own servers?
July 21, 2008 — 2:07 pm
Teri Lussier says:
>Are homeowners ready for this kind of transparency?
I live in a world online, so I tend not to think about this too much, but that’s the big question.
July 21, 2008 — 2:18 pm
Don Reedy says:
Thomas,
Good point. I was thinking out loud, however, and that’s always a danger.
I didn’t really envision having the whole world access the information I’m referring to. Instead, for the sake of discussion, let’s just say we use Greg’s coffee book marketing piece as an example.
What I’m talking about is having an online (with protections) repository for information. Of course, the information could be in the form of a CD, or a coffee book, but let’s assume that we put in online, in the seller’s unique URL, and that there is a password protected area that the seller could maintain and open up to buyers or even JUST THE BUYER of his/her home.
Teri,
I baked my first peach pie ever last week. It tasted fabulous, by the way. In fact, it tasted so good that I baked another one this weekend. But, unlike what you’re doing, I didn’t let the second one bake long enough, and it wasn’t an award winner like the first.
That said, don’t you think that if you had this service available, and just started letting people see, hear and listen to its benefits, you wouldn’t have to push market….they’d be pulled toward you?
Do you have a killer pie recipe for which you are renowned in the Greater Ohio area?
July 21, 2008 — 2:43 pm
Teri Lussier says:
Don-
What should be increasingly obvious is that I’ve never baked a pie in my life. 😀
July 21, 2008 — 2:50 pm