Things have been busy around here lately. This controversy over Trulia’s widget baiting tactics rages on in the internet world. Now Sherry Chris has chimed in as well. (Kudos to you for entering the arena…others should follow). Bottomline is this: Trulia calls us partners. (REALTORS and them) Before someone calls ME partner, there is a fair amount of due diligence needed.
Right now there are FAR more questions than answers. The research that has been going on has been productive, but what we NEED is honesty and transparency. It is what everybody wants from US, now why don’t we get that same transparency from the people raising so much hell about it.
The facts on the table seem very disturbing.
Perhaps Mike Wallace from 60 Minutes could help us get to the bottom of the issue?
This is totally hypothetical, but it would go something like this…
MW: Welcome gentlemen. There has been quite a controversy lately, Trulia, about your aggressive SEO practices.
Trulia:
MW: It seems that according to some bloggers and some search engine marketing professionals out there that you have pulled off quite a feat. You have managed to get tens of thousands of REALTORS to voluntarily ALL use your widgets all at once? How did you do it?
Trulia:
MW: That is how it happened, right? I mean your tools were SO cool that many people just decided that they HAD to use them and put them on their blogs and websites, right?
Trulia:
MW: From the research that a few of these folks have done MANY of these widgets appear at exactly the same place on the same exact pages over and over again on THOUSANDS of Number1Expert Sites all across the country…is that because each of these folks decided to put them there?
Trulia & Number1Expert:
MW: It seems pretty hard to believe that this was not done by Number1Expert… are we to beleive that? How did this come about? Since (according to reports) you have 2 and 3 links on EVERY one of the widgets pointed back to Trulia, it would seem that this is a great benefit to you. In fact, it has been reported that numerically, over 22% of the links in your portfolio come from Number1Expert. Do you have another explanation? Have you talked with the folks at Number1Expert?
Trulia:
MW: Number1Expert, your parent company is Dominion Homes Media, right? Do they not also own Advanced Access, another major real estate website player? So your company has experience in working with REALTOR websites, correct? On your website you state that you have 2,489 websites coast to coast, is that number accurate? If it is, then how do you explain all of the links? Are they coming from inactive websites as well? Is that a possible explanation? Are there other ones?
Number1Expert:
MW: Was this POSSIBLY a deal between the two of your companies? Did money change hands? Were agents made aware of these widgets being on their sites? Or were they put on their by the web developer? If so, WHY? How can a responsible web developer do this to his / her clients?
Number1Expert & Trulia:
MW: And just for clarity’s sake, many of these widgets APPEAR TO BE posted on the bottom of the “featured listings” pages, well below all the other IDX data about the homes themselves. I mean, it was not like you didn’t have the data, N1E? Why did you do that, N1E? Was that to make it easier on your staff? Was it because you thought that it would not hurt your own stated objectives to get these REALTORS the BEST search engine positioning possible? Because it was EASY?
Number1Expert:
MW: Finally, with all of this controversy out in the open, why not just drop these links? I mean they really are not helping you anyway, right? You are the REALTOR’s partner right? Or maybe there is more to this?
Ok, time to cut in on Mike Wallace a little bit…
There is no doubt that there are FAR more questions that answers. One thing is for sure: When one dog barks, the rest of the pack shows up. Galen yelped first. The response from Trulia was far less than satisfactory. So a few more of the pack used some of our research talents. Low and behold we MAY have sniffed something out…only time will tell. The sound of howling is now echoing in the corridors of real estate. Hopefully we will get answers to these questions and more.
Ah the joys of an Army of Davids, none afraid to pick up 5 smooth stones…
Mike Wallace sure has a lot of questions. When will these questions get answered? I guess that is what the comment section is for…
Galen says:
I just assume they’re paid links, don’t you? It’s pretty tough to prove though…
May 14, 2008 — 5:25 pm
Mike Farmer says:
Thanks Eric. This is very interesting. I wish I was more knowledgeable about all this — I’ve got a big ol’ rock, I just wish I had a slingshot.
May 14, 2008 — 6:02 pm
Eric Blackwell says:
@Galen – Yes, and I am not going that far yet…but it does walk like a paid link duck and talks like a paid link duck …but like I said, so many questions and no one seems to be answering.
I think maybe the next thing to do is start contacting the affected REALTORS with a N1E site one by one and see what they can tell us. My opinion is that the real estate community is owed the truth.
@Mike– Maybe I need to drop the sporting goods store and pick up a few extras (GRIN) thank you, sir.
May 14, 2008 — 6:25 pm
Doug Quance says:
One can only wonder how Google will eventually treat all of this… now that you can see listings on the regular Google maps…
May 14, 2008 — 7:02 pm
truliawatch says:
From Google:
Google and most other search engines use links to determine reputation. A site’s ranking in Google search results is partly based on analysis of those sites that link to it. Link-based analysis is an extremely useful way of measuring a site’s value, and has greatly improved the quality of web search. Both the quantity and, more importantly, the quality of links count towards this rating.
However, some SEOs and webmasters engage in the practice of buying and selling links that pass PageRank, disregarding the quality of the links, the sources, and the long-term impact it will have on their sites. Buying or selling links that pass PageRank is in violation of Google’s webmaster guidelines and can negatively impact a site’s ranking in search results.
Not all paid links violate our guidelines. Buying and selling links is a normal part of the economy of the web when done for advertising purposes, and not for manipulation of search results. Links purchased for advertising should be designated as such. This can be done in several ways, such as:
* Adding a rel=”nofollow” attribute to the tag
* Redirecting the links to an intermediate page that is blocked from search engines with a robots.txt file
Google works hard to ensure that it fully discounts links intended to manipulate search engine results, such excessive link exchanges and purchased links that pass PageRank. If you see a site that is buying or selling links that pass PageRank, let us know. We’ll use your information to improve our algorithmic detection of such links.
Let Google know here:
https://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/paidlinks
May 14, 2008 — 7:38 pm
Ryan Ward says:
Doug,
I think you are correct. Eric Bramlett pointed out somewhere else (that I can’t find to link to) that someone else had some misadventures as well as success with widgets. Perhaps they get devalued at some point. As far as the Google maps, well, time will tell.
To the links being paid or not…I can’t imagine anyone coming out and saying they are paid, but, if someone has a better theory, I would love to hear it.
If they are paid, Google needs to immediately devalue them as they have done with other known paid links and if Trulia is using their capital to buy links from other sources, they should be treated as an example the same way other other sites are/have been treated with regards to search engine manipulation and gaming the system.
I’m not saying they are, but…
May 14, 2008 — 8:17 pm
Sean Purcell says:
Mike,
I’ve got a big ol’ rock, I just wish I had a slingshot
You’re killin’ me… 🙂 I think I’ll join you. I don’t understand all of this very well either. But I’ve got a big old rock and I’m just looking for a target… 😉
May 14, 2008 — 9:43 pm
Bob Wilson says:
“Let him who is without sin cast the first stone”
May 14, 2008 — 10:58 pm
Greg Cremia says:
At one time AA sites had links to homegain on all of their websites. They might still be there. So I am not surprised by this.
Hopefully, google will see it for what it is, PR manipulation, and penalize the offenders. Unfortunately, the players spend a lot of money on google so I wouldn’t be surprised if nothing happens.
May 15, 2008 — 5:45 am
Wayne Long says:
Wow! It is really hard to believe that Number 1 Expert would do something like this to their clients.
You would think they would have the expertise to put there own unique stuff on a website with out using widgets from Trulia and helping them compete with N1E clients.
This just seems lazy and it seems like they don’t care about their clients. Do you think this is just ignorance on N1Expert’s part? Surely they are not intentionally hurting their clients like this. Hopefully they will remove the widgets. If I was a N1E client and they did not remove the widgets – I would throw a fit and it would get ugly.
May 15, 2008 — 6:25 am
Eric Bramlett says:
@Ryan – Here’s a link to the widgetbait article that I referenced a while back. If Google were to do anything to Trulia, I think they would devalue the widget links, I don’t see them getting a ban for this.
May 15, 2008 — 6:49 am
Ryan Ward says:
Thanks Eric. That’s a good read for some more insight into this topic. I agree that a devalue would be the most likely course of action. Sure would love to hear it from someone at Google though. They could probably go a long way to clearing this up…
May 15, 2008 — 6:54 am
Bob Wilson says:
If it wasn’t for the links back to them, which is SOP for widget makers, there would be no discussion. This is sour grapes over getting beat by a smarter competitor.
They won’t get a penalty because the widget is useful and relates to real estate. Kris Berg is proof. Kris is always about the consumer. She added a widget because she felt it added value. Same with the Altos Research graphs. Those graphs have links as well. The link is recognized as fair trade for the widget. The fact that agents don’t understand that is not the fault of the widget maker. Asking Trulia to drop the links is an absurd request.
Trulia has not broken any search engine guidelines. The issue Google has with the links in widgets is when the links don’t go back to the widget maker.
Your beef is with #1E, who truly doesn’t get it. Vetting Trulia in this manner is over the top. It isn’t as if they are involved in business practices that many would find offensive.
May 15, 2008 — 8:02 am
Ryan Ward says:
The only value add that Trulia has is there organic search results. The info is often outdated, innadequate or misleading.
If they have paid #1E to link their widgets on #1E pages would you still think that is within G guidelines?
May 15, 2008 — 8:13 am
Hi, I'm Rudy from Trulia.com says:
Hi all!
Need to clear up all of this misinformation and confusion going on here. We absolutely do not pay number1expert for any links. The TruliaMap integration was an opportunity they saw to enhance their client websites with a valuable free tool from Trulia, as it drives more clicks into their site. Sadly, nothing scandalous here.
For some more insight into what Trulia is really all about, please take the time to read our blog post – http://www.truliablog.com/2008/05/15/back-to-basics-trulia-was-built-to-help-improve-your-roi/
Rudy
Social Media Guru at Trulia.com
May 15, 2008 — 9:07 am
Eric Bramlett says:
>>>>This is sour grapes over getting beat by a smarter competitor.
I don’t know if I’d call it sour grapes. I think it’s a solid campaign, and it definitely inspires me to put together something cool. I think it’s dirty that they expect agents to follow links back to them, but nofollow all outbound links (regardless of how valuable those links are.) I don’t know if Trulia’s smarter, or just has better resources.
>>>>Your beef is with #1E, who truly doesn’t get it.
I agree.
May 15, 2008 — 9:19 am
Bob Wilson says:
>The only value add that Trulia has is there organic search results. The info is often outdated, innadequate or misleading.
That is the opinion of a competitor. I would bet that the average time spent on their site dwarfs the time spent by the average visitor on 99% of all agent sites. consumers are funny. If they don’t find value, they tend to go elsewhere. I wonder what there returning visitor rate is. I’ll bet that is higher than the most agent sites as well.
>I think it’s dirty that they expect agents to follow links back to them, but nofollow all outbound links (regardless of how valuable those links are.)
Cmon Eric. They built widgets the same way everyone else does. They don’t expect anything. They are not doing anything with those links that isn’t done anywhere else. The link value from listings is negligible anyways. Listings come and go. That is typical for most aggregators.
I am not pro-3rd party. If anyone is going to beat me in San Diego real estate searches, it’s most likely going to be Trulia, so if anything, my bias would run against them. However, this argument has turned from no follows to the inference of shady practices.
Educate all you want. Be fair and consistent though. Don’t overlook the other practices that go on by other providers. Speak out about those that have gamed the system and been caught instead of endorsing them or going silent when it happens.
May 15, 2008 — 11:35 am
Ronnie Bredahl says:
If I follow you correctly, Eric (Blackwell – too many EB’s on here), Trulia and N1E did not answer any of Mike Wallace’s questions? Did they say anything at all?
May 15, 2008 — 11:41 am
Ronnie Bredahl says:
Don’t be shy…
www. trulia .com/voices/Tech_Tips/Why_are_local_Realtors_giving_Trulia_their_site_vi-36225–
May 15, 2008 — 1:14 pm
Eric Blackwell says:
@ Bob – Yep. You are right that my main beef is with Number 1 Expert–unless the links were paid–and paid to a mega-website developer–then my beef is with both parties. It only makes sense to arrest both the “hooker” and the “john”. IF RE/MAX (HYPOTHETICAL EXAMPLE) went out with REMAX.com and paid Advanced Access to plug in a widget to their umpteen thousand sites in an inconspicuous place, and they outranked you in San Diego and every other city in the US, would that be any different?
Unsuspecting REALTORS that belonged to KW, GMAC, Pru and independant brokerages would be TORKED that their sites had been used to promote RE/MAX.
How is this any different?
For the record (as I said in my original post) If a REALTOR still wants to put the widgets up, I am cool with it. If they find value GREAT! (I don’t).
But what we have uncovered is 10’s of thousands of links put there WITHOUT the website owners knowledge. We do not know yet whether the website company was PAID to do this. (Sure is looking that way!)
That is what I have a problem with…I just want the average REALTOR to be able to make an informed decision as to what they are getting with these widgets. Solid folks like Kris deciding to put it up there is OK by me (my earlier reference to her was as a friend, not as criticism in any way.)
Hope that helps clarify where my concerns are.
May 15, 2008 — 2:18 pm
louis@homegain.com says:
Greg
I am unaware of a time when Advance Access ever linked back to HomeGain. I’ve been at HG since Jan 2005.
Our most recent link back coup is the one to the right on the bloodhound blog 🙂
May 15, 2008 — 2:27 pm
Bob Wilson says:
Your example is apples and oranges. Trulia’s widget is clearly labeled as Trulia. There is no deception in play. If an agent doesnt get that a map branded with the words “Trulia” promotes Trulia, then they should be required to surrender their real estate license.
The ONLY issue here is the links and that they have 1000s of widgets out there.
That’s BS. Widgets and links go hand in hand. You know that. If the website owner doesn’t want the widget, then they can call #1E and complain and insist that it be removed. Most probably don’t.
Furthermore, the whole “research” done was hardly rocket science and just a tad misleading as it relates to Google. You are pulling the links from Yahoo which counts a ton of pages that are not even indexed. On most of the #1E sites I checked, it is less than half, which means that many of those links have No, ZIP, ZERO, NADA value.
Do you know that money changed hands? is it fair to make that accusation without a shred of proof?
That is called competition, and it’s a game I have been playing since 1998. If I get beat, then I need to raise my game or concede. Trulia isn’t the first, and won’t be the last, to push me or beat me.
If you don’t like it and feel that Trulia has done something wrong, then file a spam report. My issue with this argument is the situational ethics in play and the fact that it is one sided. Call out the others that violate the rules, instead of endorsing them. Vet the practices of all the vendors. Pull back the curtain on everyone Eric.
May 15, 2008 — 2:59 pm
Bob Wilson says:
May 15, 2008 — 3:07 pm
Eric Bramlett says:
>>>>Educate all you want. Be fair and consistent though. Don’t overlook the other practices that go on by other providers.
Bob, right now, Trulia is threatening everyone in the SERPs. That’s why they’re being called out. I don’t think anyone here is in the fight out of ethics – BTW, Google TOS and ethics don’t go hand in hand. Google is neither a philosophy nor a religion.
If Zillow, Homegain, Realtor.com, or any other large third party portal were gaining in the SERPs using SEO tactics that we could educate the general real estate community about and counteract, then we would do the exact same thing.
May 15, 2008 — 5:15 pm
Hi, I\'m Rudy from Trulia.com says:
Hello!
We absolutely do not pay Number1Expert for any links. The TruliaMap integration was an opportunity they saw to enhance their client websites with a valuable free tool from Trulia, as it drives more clicks into their site. Sadly, nothing scandalous here.
For some clarity on much of the misinformation and confusion going on here and elsewhere, please take the time to read our blog post –
http://www.truliablog.com/2008/05/15/back-to-basics-trulia-was-built-to-help-improve-your-roi/
Regards,
Rudy
Social Media Guru at Trulia
May 15, 2008 — 5:20 pm
Rudy from Trulia says:
Note – Comment has been waiting in moderation all day.
Hi all!
We absolutely do not pay Number1Expert for any links. The TruliaMap integration was an opportunity they saw to enhance their client websites with a valuable free tool from Trulia, as it drives more clicks into their site. Sadly, nothing scandalous here.
For some clarity on much of the misinformation and confusion going on here and elsewhere, please take the time to read our blog post –
http://www.truliablog.com/2008/05/15/back-to-basics-trulia-was-built-to-help-improve-your-roi/
Best,
Rudy
Social Media Guru at Trulia
May 15, 2008 — 5:25 pm
Galen says:
Rudy, I could maybe see the argument that it keeps people there, but how on earth can a widget with a link to an online competitor (in the search engines, anyone who ranks ahead of you is a competitor) drives clicks into their site? That seems very confused.
May 15, 2008 — 5:54 pm
Eric Bramlett says:
Galen –
Rudy’s in the “canned response” mode. He’s issued the same comments on multiple blog posts today.
May 15, 2008 — 6:19 pm
Greg Swann says:
> Note – Comment has been waiting in moderation all day.
Not moderation. A false positive at Akismet.com, so Rudy was trapped in the spambot all day. I was out doing Unchained work and then showing all day, or he would have broken out sooner.
My apologies. FWIW, I want for Trulia to talk on this issue. Y’all are digging yourselves in deeper, so you’re that much closer to changing the policy on nofollows.
May 15, 2008 — 6:21 pm
Ryan Ward says:
Yes,
I need some help with this as well. Maybe I don’t understand so let me look at this from a consumer POV:
I’m on a #1E website and finding the content to be what I was looking for and then I see some cool map from Trulia.
1. I’m already on the site – can’t drive a click that way…
2. Clicking a link on a site I’m on doesn’t exactly drive clicks on the same site since I’m already there.
To drive clicks into their site, wouldn’t they need to be on someone else’s site first?
This is some kind of voodoo logic that I don’t follow, but, maybe the good folks at #1E could swing by here and help explain as they seem to have bnought it hook line and sinker!
May 15, 2008 — 6:23 pm
Missy Caulk says:
I commented that I had contacted Number 1 yesterday to clarify and sent them the links to these posts. I have had number 1 since 1999. Is my other comment waiting moderation too ?
May 15, 2008 — 6:30 pm
Greg Swann says:
> Is my other comment waiting moderation too ?
Here? There’s nothing in the moderation bot right now. If you got caught by the spambot, you’re toast. I scan for false positives, but if I miss one, it gets flushed. Another possibility: You hit Subscibe instead of Post. My apologies in any case.
May 15, 2008 — 6:41 pm
louis cammarosano says:
greg awhile back I made the point, picking up on todd carpenter’s assertion that the best thing about web 2.0 is it empowers the little guy,that all companies have to potential to be choke points.
just because a company uses 2.0 methodologies that you subscribe to, doesn’t make them less worrisome. indeed if they use those technologies for their benefit and not the realtors’, or the relationship is skewed in favor of the company (read vendor) then you have a problem.
since third parties don’t seem to be going away realtors should ask the question -not whether a company is “revolutionary” or innovative” or “2.0” but rather will an association with thay company be beneficial.
I ask the question in this blog post http://blog.homegain.com/how-does-third-party-vendor-partner-with-realtors
May 15, 2008 — 6:42 pm
Mary Alexander says:
Wow. I wonder if other companies are doing things like this.
May 15, 2008 — 6:46 pm
Greg Swann says:
> just because a company uses 2.0 methodologies
In this matter, Trulia is acting like a Chokepoint — trying to capture clicks ahead of its own listing partners. I don’t regard its responses as being transparent in the way that I defined transparency on Sunday. As an example, in Pete Flint’s post, he says:
This is a specious argument. Removing the nofollows would not hurt their ranking, but it is venal to invoke my name in support of their policy. I am able to beat them because I devote serious effort to beating them. No on should have to do this — assuming other people know how — to score first on their own listings.
So: If you’re holding Trulia.com up as an exemplar of Web 2.0 ethics, you’ve missed the mark.
> since third parties don’t seem to be going away realtors should ask the question -not whether a company is “revolutionary” or innovative” or “2.0″ but rather will an association with thay company be beneficial.
I get to take this topic up with you on Tuesday. Here’s my take: The ideal prospecting cost per completed transaction is $0.00. You have to cost-justify every penny you expect me to pay over that amount. Meanwhile, I used some of the the money I saved on prospecting to buy a wonderful Dewalt drill, and I am dying to put the screws to somebody… 😉
May 15, 2008 — 6:59 pm
louis cammarosano says:
greg
you really amuse me with the way you read into some of my comments as attributing some nefarious charateristic, in this case “venal”.
in no way did I say you support trulia’s practices, I was making the point that ALL companies are suspect. you have gone to great lengths to criticize homegain as a cbokepoint while our entire marketing budget goes towards supporting realtors.
other companies like zillow are beholden not to realtors but advertisers.
in this respect realtors should eye them with the same suspicion that they eye homegain.
again I will make the point, without ascribing any venal characteristics your way greg or by casting any aspersion on you,realtors should ask before working with any third party -will they partner with me and will I get at least what I give?http://blog.homegain.com/how-does-third-party-vendor-partner-with-realtors
May 15, 2008 — 7:15 pm
louis cammarosano says:
immediate apologies greg, I realize you were referring to the other vendor not me for venially invoking your name in justification of trulia’s policies.
sorry.
May 15, 2008 — 7:25 pm
Sparky says:
I have it on good authority that it was a Trulia Widget who fired the second shot from the grassy knoll in Dallas, and that a Trulia Widget was responsible for 911.
May 16, 2008 — 12:26 am
Mike Farmer says:
“Note – Comment has been waiting in moderation all day.”
— Rudy
Another note: My comment on Trulia’s blog that talked about agent ROI was held up in moderation, in fact hasn’t been posted. This transparency thing is getting darker.
May 16, 2008 — 4:37 am
Mike Farmer says:
Now, this post is in moderation. Greg — what the hell is going on?
May 16, 2008 — 4:38 am
Ryan Ward says:
I would be curious to know if anyone thinks this would be a voluntary link or a paid link:
http://www.homethinking.com/seattle-Realtors-in-Washington.html
Check right above the Google Ads on the right hand side where it says “Seattle Homes For Sale on Trulia“
May 16, 2008 — 5:43 am
Greg Swann says:
> Now, this post is in moderation. Greg — what the hell is going on?
If you’re caught by a moderation bot, that’s software. If you’re not let out, that’s someone’s choice. I’ve fixed the trap that caught your comment here. I can’t help you with Trulia.
May 16, 2008 — 6:32 am
Mike Farmer says:
Sparky,
The Erics et al Commission is more powerful and unbiased than the Warren Commission was — 🙂
May 16, 2008 — 6:49 am
Bob Wilson says:
May 16, 2008 — 8:12 am
Louis Cammarosano says:
Hi Bob
I am not interested in what “most agents” think, I am interested in letting people know what homegain does and how it is different.
HomeGain does NOT use “your listings” to “sell you leads”.
Indeed, HomeGain does not post listings on our site.
Our listings product, buyerlink is simple-if an agent or broker has listings on their site, we drive visitors to those sites and the agent of broker displays the listings on THEIR site.
This is a pay per click model that is no different than if the broker or agent bought key words on Google or Yahoo to drive visitors to their site.
But there is a difference, HomeGain sends YOU traffic so YOU can display YOUR listings on YOUR site, by spending millions of dollars on MSN, Yahoo and Google to drive those visits, by aggregating 300 partners to send traffic, through the millions of people that visit HomeGain.com each year, that we then pass along to our realtor customers, and through some SEO traffic (our SEO traffic is only a single digit percentage of our traffic)
AND our customers will tell you that the quality of our traffic is better than SEO traffic or traffic that is purchased through key word campaigns.
So unlike Trulia and Zillow who indeed do take YOUR listings (that you willingly send them)and sell ads around them or try to get you to buy featured listings packages of your own listings, HomeGain does not.
HomeGain’s entire marketing budget goes towards getting traffic and leads to REALTORS, not third party advertisers.
May 16, 2008 — 8:22 am
Rudy from Trulia says:
Galen,
Unlike other business models – referral companies, online newspapers – we are a technology partner that helps drive targeted consumer traffic directly to the participating agents and brokers websites/listings for FREE. This is a cost effective way to enhance your brand while driving interested consumers directly to your listings.
Trulia Map drives engagement on your site. All the map markers link to the listings on your site. Our data shows 80K monthly clicks driven into participating agent sites.
Rudy
Social Media Guru at Trulia
May 16, 2008 — 8:49 am
Rudy from Trulia says:
Hi Mike,
Since I originally answered your moderation question on your blog, http://bonzai.squarespace.com/blog/2008/5/16/moderation-hell-trulia-hyperbole-im-fed-up.html?lastPage=true#comment1506720
I just wanted to share that here as well. Hope that’s ok.
“”Trulia’s is manmade, not software — they read it and chose to not post it.”
You are mistaken. Trulia Blog uses a wordpress plugin spam filter software – spam karma 2. If scroll to the bottom of our blog, you will see it in the footer. I found your comment amongst the many that are labeled as spam and rescued it.”
“Good question.Spam karma 2, plugin has settings that rank/judge whether comments are spam.Every once in awhile, valid comments get sucked in. I check to see if valid comments are caught as often as I can. I didn’t find yours until this morning. If it happens again, please send me an email and I will check it.
If you have a wordpress blog, you can install the plugin to see how it works firsthand. Quite interesting actually.
As an aside, but a very important one – the 3 comment fields, name, email and url, play some role in this too. I’ve noticed this yesterday when I tried commenting on multiple blogs and none of my comments were getting through. It appears they were all using the akismet plugin. This plugin uses the wisdom of the crowds mentality where if a group of people mark you as spam, then it incorporates that into it’s algorithm, I think? So I changed how I presented my name and url and miraculously, my comments started to appear again. So if this happens to you, change the way you present your name and url and keep it consistent with the primary domain.”
Rudy
Social Media Guru at Trulia
May 16, 2008 — 9:04 am
Mike Brown says:
I think the Trulia widget is great linkbait. I wish I had though of it and I wish I had a strong business relationship with a company that would post it on thousands of websites. Most Realtors do not understand link strategy and even after explaining it to them most would still not understand it. Unfortunately they just see it as a cool little doodad on their template sites, they do not realize they are helping to put themselves out of business. “No single raindrop believes it is to blame for the flood.”
Is it fair to the little guy? Hell no but is it legal? Sure it is. Is there a Walmart in every town in America and did Walmart put thousands of mom and pop stores out of business?
May 16, 2008 — 9:05 am
Galen says:
Rudy, this is getting silly, but I’ll reply. You suggested that the reason one would put the widget on agent sites is to drive traffic into them. I said that was silly and it is.
Specifically: “The TruliaMap integration was an opportunity they saw to enhance their client websites with a valuable free tool from Trulia, as it drives more clicks into their site. Sadly, nothing scandalous here.”
That is silly. No widget drives traffic – they might look pretty, but they do not drive traffic. Furthermore if the wanted to add value for their clients they would have removed the links back to Trulia. It would take about 5 seconds, the widgets are free anyway, and they would have helped their clients rank well in Google. There is no requirement that the people who embed the widget to keep the “(blank) Real Estate” link back to Trulia from the agent sites (right???). In fact, they probably had to programmatically add those links, which means they spent time and effort adding links for you. They’d do that out of the kindness of their hearts?
I’ll come out and say it: it’s a bunch of paid links. Lots of companies do it, you just got caught.
Whether adding your listings to Trulia drives traffic or just adds a filter between agents and the customer is another argument that we can have on another post. Here we are arguing about widgets and paid links. The widget map may drive engagement, but it definitely does not drive traffic.
I enjoyed talking with you last year Rudy and I’ve enjoyed talking with Pete both times I met him. I’m disappointed that we’re getting this defensive, not-to-the-point crap from both of you.
May 16, 2008 — 9:10 am
Rudy from Trulia says:
Hi Galen,
I agree, pretty silly indeed. Sorry, but once again, they are not paid links.
The Trulia Map widget is about engagement, not traffic. As with any widget, if you think it adds value to your site or to your users, then use it. If not, don’t. In fact, people are free to use them or not.
Actually, we met this year at Inman Connect in NYC in January and I really enjoyed meeting you as well.
Rudy
Social Media Guru at Trulia
May 16, 2008 — 9:50 am
Bob Wilson says:
Let’s look at that. On Kris Berg’s blog, she has a trulia map that plots 6 of her listings. A mouseover gives you gives you address and price. I’m sure the seller appreciates that. Click on it and you get address, price, bed/ba info, a photo, and a more details link that does indeed take you to the Berg’s primary real estate site.
In my book, that is a tool that drives traffic to her site. Definitively.
The widget has a link to Trulia.com, to the trulia map image and to /truliamap/.
Kris has a few widgets on her site, all of which have links back to the widget creator. Do you expect her to remove or no follow all links in widgets because they may work against her?
Now lets look at Estately. I clicked a link for Washington real estate and then to Bainbridge Island. I saw <a href=”http://www.estately.com/listings/info/834433#listings/info/834433″this listing (which belongs to client of mine that is relocating to SoCal), but no links to the listing agent or the Coldwell Banker listing office anywhere on the page. What I found was a phone number to you.
What value do you bring to the table that is any different than Trulia? You are still what Eric would label as an interloper, are you not?
But I forgot. The argument is about paid links. An accusation, you as a competitor to Trulia, make here with no proof. Give me a break.
The ONLY issue here is the agent awareness that all widgets have links and that all lead generators/listing aggregators are competing for the same eyeballs as the local agent. Educate all you want, but the accusations need to have some proof behind them.
May 16, 2008 — 10:01 am
anonymous says:
“Sorry, but once again, they are not paid links.”
They are absolutely paid. They are paid through enhancement of N1E agent listings on Trulia (which they charge brokers for).
Gotta love the honesty from “broker darling” Trulia. But it wont matter because the brokerage community can’t see past their next commission check. They quickly forgot that Trulia was started by illegally crawling sites and harvesting listing data from those sites in order to post it on trulia.com. When that made some brokers mad, Trulia asked for forgiveness but said we’re here now so why don’t you just let us build our business off of you. Brokers saw a little bit of traffic coming to their site from Trulia.com and immediately became blinded by the potential sales crack. If brokers have a problem with Trulia competing with them on the search engines, get together and stop sending them data and Trulia will cease to exist shortly thereafter. So far, REMAX national seems to be the only one that gets it.
May 16, 2008 — 11:35 am
Louis Cammarosano says:
Hi Bob
I am not interested in what “most agents” think, I am interested in letting people know what homegain does and how it is different.
HomeGain does NOT use “your listings” to “sell you leads”.
Indeed, HomeGain does not post listings on our site.
Our listings product, buyerlink is simple-if an agent or broker has listings on their site, we drive visitors to those sites and the agent of broker displays the listings on THEIR site.
This is a pay per click model that is no different than if the broker or agent bought key words on Google or Yahoo to drive visitors to their site.
But there is a difference, HomeGain sends YOU traffic so YOU can display YOUR listings on YOUR site, by spending millions of dollars on MSN, Yahoo and Google to drive those visits, by aggregating 300 partners to send traffic, through the millions of people that visit HomeGain.com each year, that we then pass along to our realtor customers, and through some SEO traffic (our SEO traffic is only a single digit percentage of our traffic)
AND our customers will tell you that the quality of our traffic is better than SEO traffic or traffic that is purchased through key word campaigns.
So unlike Trulia and Zillow who indeed do take YOUR listings (that you willingly send them)and sell ads around them or try to get you to buy featured listings packages of your own listings, HomeGain does not.
HomeGain’s entire marketing budget goes towards getting traffic and leads to REALTORS, not third party advertisers.
May 16, 2008 — 1:08 pm
Galen says:
Bob, Estately works within the bounds of what the MLS gives us – just like every other brokerage in America. If they provided us with links to the original listing pages, we’d probably include them.
What value do we bring? We have a much more comprehensive database of homes for sale – much more! – and it’s more timely and up to date. That’s why consumers come back to us over and over.
You are right though – it is nearly impossible to prove that someone is buying links and even harder to prove a negative. Here’s what I do know though (from the comments here):
– The vendor has sold links in the past or charitably linked to HomeGain
– The vendor went out of their way to write in the code that generates links along with the maps – it would have been easier just to generate the maps and trivial to remove the links
– All widgets have links, but a large percentage of people remove the links – as discussed in the SEOMoz story linked to above
I’m going to leave my contribution here at that – I’m not sure any additional bickering is going to do anything to promote understanding or conversation.
I’m proud that you identify us as a competitor, as tiny and scrappy as we are – we’ll take that as a sincere compliment. Thanks!
May 16, 2008 — 1:48 pm
Bob Wilson says:
Galen, i didn’t know you were acting as a broker. That isn’t very clear on the site.
I take much of SEOmoz with a grain of salt. There are many reasons why, and generalizing that most remove links from widgets is just one. That clearly isn’t the case with most OUTSIDE of the SEO arena.
FWIW, I think everyone in the RE space should be viewed as a competitor and I don’t take many lightly.
Louis, I have no doubt you spent millions. The do follow PR8 links from MSNBC couldn’t have been cheap.
May 16, 2008 — 11:29 pm
Eric Bramlett says:
>>>>I take much of SEOmoz with a grain of salt.
Agreed, but it is a good resource & provides interesting perspectives. They definitely don’t provide definitive answers to much.
>>>>>FWIW, I think everyone in the RE space should be viewed as a competitor and I don’t take many lightly.
I couldn’t disagree with you more on this. I don’t see how anyone outside my market is a competitor. I think that we all have fantastic opportunities to help each other.
May 17, 2008 — 6:43 am
Awesome Investigative Reporting says:
I’m an owner of numerous domain names and make my trade in buying and selling them. I recently had a series of inquiries from a business development executive at Trulia who was interested in first, link exchanging with some of my real-estate related URLs. When I turned him down, he then upped his offer to paid links. I monetize my sites with Ad Sense and do fairly well. I don’t know much about real estate, but this gentlemen from Trulia opened my eyes. After doing a search to learn more about Trulia, I ended up here. Very fascinating.
So I’ll let you guys decide. Should I take Trulia’s money and start putting up some of their links?
May 17, 2008 — 9:03 pm
Sparky says:
Absolutely! Take Trulia’s money. Then, when you’re done there, call me. I have some very lucrative bridge investments for your portfolio….
May 17, 2008 — 10:37 pm