It’s no secret to most Realtors that the housing market is in the toilet right now, but there is still a group of aggressive buyers who are still quite active. The Real Estate Investor.
While the mere thought of working with investors causes some Realtors to cringe, it’s time for the vinegar and oil relationship to end.
Investors are willing to work with anyone that can bring them a deal. They use birddogs, postal workers, bankruptcy attorneys, court clerks and yes, they will use the services of a Realtor.
However, the breakdown in communication usually comes when the parameters of a real estate investor are not met. A real estate investor, if they are experienced, will have a very defined set of criteria that must be met if they are going to pull the trigger on a deal.
While condition and neighborhood often are irrelevant, the numbers have to absolutely make sense. Most investors that we work with will not look at any deal unless it either cash flows if it is held or provides for significant return if it is to be re-sold.
Cashflow means the property must provide for at minimum a zero balance after income and expenses are taken into account. That is to say that after the projected rental amount on the property, less expenses can not be a negative number.
Here is a calculator that you can use to determine cash flow BEFORE presenting a deal to an investor. You can obtain market rents very easily without the need of the MLS by simply going to Zilpy. The features on Zilpy are pretty accurate and we have used them to work the numbers on properties we own and properties we have purchased and it has proven to be quite accurate.
On a re-sale deal, the property has to be purchased at a price that is at minimum 60% or belowwhat is perceived to be current market value. Some more aggressive investors will take a deal at 70% below perceived current market value but the pool gets really thin at LTV levels above this number.
Where do you find properties like this to sell to investors? Everywhere! I wrote a post a couple of days ago referencing the productivity level of Realtors in this market. It became pretty clear that there are a lot of Realtors whose productivity level is below 5 or so sides for all of this year. I personally know some investors who are averaging 5-10 transactions…per month!
Many Realtors are reluctant to do what it takes to find the deals that investors are looking for. It is understandable if one chooses not to work with investors because as a group we can be very demanding. You’re not going to sell or convince an investor. You’re also not going to hide anything from them either.
Investors, experienced ones anyways, are trained to exploit any imperfection that they can in a property because that exploitation usually equates to higher profits. So when dealing with an investor, be prepared to disclose everything you know about a property and expect the investor to find even more issues and for the investor to put a dollar amount on those issues found.
In this market, you can find properties for investors by speaking to listing agents who are managing REO properties for lenders. Often times these properties need work and are not suitable for most “retail” end user buyers. These properties, if the numbers make sense, are the types of deals that most investors are looking for.
Here’s another caveat…don’t expect an investor to run all over town looking at deals. When we buy property we often do so sight unseen. Like I stated earlier, it’s all about the numbers. An experienced investor can perform all of his due diligence from the comfort of his office. He can run comparables, check out the neighborhood, obtain market rent analysis, find out about any liens or code violations, check out the status of the current owners and even have repairs estimated for him right from his office.
As any offer submitted will be based upon a right of inspection, it’s not necessary to waste time running around looking at individual properties. Don’t worry a thorough inspection will most assuredly be completed but it will be done so after acceptance of the contract and the contract is subject to inspection anyway so what’s the reason to go running all over town.
A lot of Realtors used to selling to end users are often surprised by this. Often times we get asked by agents, “Don’t you even want to see the property before putting this offer in?” No, we don’t need to. We know the area, we have probably already seen the house at one time or another and we have people in the field and other associates who will or have gione by the house already and taken a look on our behalf.
That’s another great point to remember. An experienced professional investor can probably tell you about any neighborhood in his working area. He has been working that area for some time and already has information relative to the demographics and may have already bought and sold properties or may be holding properties in that very vicinity.
What a good agent is needed for is to professionally negotiate the offer with the REO agent. An agent who understands the needs of an investor and works diligently on behalf of an investor will have more business than they can handle.
How many Realtors reading this even know how to find investors? Word spreads quick when an agent is found to be investor friendly. Investors are often cash buyers and when they find the deal they want they move quickly. Some can close in as little as 24 hours from clear title. Just think, after you read this you could look up some properties on the MLS, run the numbers, and speak to some investors and have a closing by Friday! It can and does work like that.
So where do you find investors. You just have to look. There are investment clubs that meet regularly in most metropolitan areas. These clubs can be as few as 50 or so investors all the way up to some of the largest which may have as many as 5,000 active members. Additionally there are a number of large websites that specifically cater to investors. Here is a list of investment clubs from across the Country.
Working with investors is not for everyone. Investors can often be tough and brazen. Reason being is most don’t have the time to deal with the usual Realtor pitch or the unprepared Realtor.
Many Realtors think that some of the techniques that investors utilize are either unethical or illegal. While there are sure to be some con artists in the bunch, for the most part investors who have been around are very knowledgeable and are willing to listen if a deal makes sense.
When you approach an investor with a deal have your ducks in a row. Prepare thoroughly, expect to be challenged on your numbers, understand that you are dealing with a savvy and shred professional buyer who will do whatever it takes to maximize his or her profit.
Just because you may not understand a strategy or technique does not mean it’s illegal. An investor will buy a property today, if not from you, from somebody. If you want to approach the investor market as a way of increasing your income, understand that this market is viable but you need to have your ducks in a row.
In the next week or so I’ll be explaining some of the techniques an investor uses to maximize his profit and how a Realtor can also ethically and legally become an investor and earn more money investing than waiting for a commission.
Lastly, no…I am not advocating flipping or speculating haphazardly. There is a proper and conservative way that investors are making money right now. It is in these times that millionaires are made.
This is the best real estate market for experienced real estate investors. Those Realtors who are not actively and aggressively pursuing real estate investors are leaving a lot of money on the table.
Broker Bryant says:
Hey Barry, Now this is good stuff. I’ll look forward to reading the series. I do work with a handful of Investors and have for years. I LOVE them!! Being able to do most of the work from my laptop is very appealing to me.
And you are right that this market is ripe with opportunity for real investors that are looking for cash flow properties.
Banks are very anxious to unload properties right now. And their anxiety level is sure to increase over the next year or so.
May 12, 2008 — 10:35 am
Barry Cunningham says:
Thanks BB..it’s the kind of stuff we will be focusing on and it’s time to really let people know we want to help given our background.
May 12, 2008 — 10:55 am
Jeanne Breault says:
Hey Barry,
Thanks for the tips!
I actually enjoy number crunching…I’m one of the few from my licensing class not worried about the “math” part of the exam: I knew I could count on getting those 10 questions right! 🙂 I was more worried about the 40 statutes and real estate commission questions!
May 12, 2008 — 1:17 pm
Barry Cunningham says:
Thanks Jeanne…I’ll be writing more about this
May 12, 2008 — 3:43 pm
Brian Brady says:
I work as a trust deeds broker (READ: hard money),in SoCal. Probably 1/3 of our business is in this arena. Why? The deals fund while banks are finding ways to say no.
Similarly, it’s all about the numbers, as well. What’s the LIQUIDATION value (sold in 90 days) of the home? If it’s a rental, will the rents cover the debt service if the lender has to take the deal back. Can the borrower repay the loan?
…and then there’s the schmooze factor. Does the investor trust us? (not as much in 2008 as in 2006). Will we be there for him if the borrower goes bad (as do 10% of these risky sub-prime deals). Did he read something bad in the paper this morning? Did he believe it?
We probably can’t fund 2 for every one we fund, so it’s a lot of work. However, trust deed investors are a great bunch. While their skittish, and overly-deliberative, they are a continued source for fundings in a difficult market.
Nice work on this.
May 12, 2008 — 5:01 pm
Chris says:
Carefull when dealing with investors, they will cut you out of they can. Also as said above just because a property is listed doesn’t make it a deal. Run the numbers and make sure its a deal before contacting them. From my experiance very, very few actual deals make it to the MLS. Most are swapped privatly, although agents are usualy involved, usualy on the resale side. If I deal does make it to the MLS you have maybe a day before its gone. A month ago their was a house that came on at 50% of market value at 10am, I called the listing agent at 11:30 trying to get inside to see how bad the damage was so I could meet my investor and we could write up an offer, but it was sold.
What I have seen done again and again is that if you show one a listed property, insted of going through you, they will go right to the listing agent or broker and try to get it minus your commission. Not all will do this but be carefull, it happens.
I have had good luck finding building lots for cheap by just knocking on doors or calling houses that have them. If the people agree to sell at a cheap price I have people that I call who will come in and buy it. They won’t screw me because I won’t tell them where it is until we agree on my compensation. They also know I have the competition on speed dial and if they screw me it will go to someone else.
I have actualy recently gotten rid of my RE license and moved over to the investment side. I’m hoping to close on my first deal very soon. I actualy enjoy the hunt much more and; I think if I had to do another open house I’d go postal! LOL!
May 12, 2008 — 5:28 pm
Barry Cunningham says:
Hey chris..Welcome to the dark side!
May 12, 2008 — 5:47 pm
Melina Tomson says:
Barry,
I have a couple of investors that I have a standing relationship with and I agree that they are not for everyone. I have met many that I don’t want to work with. You do need to have a good fit with an agent I think.
I think it is one of those things that good investors are well read and understand exactly what they are doing and why. They don’t need us to talk about the basics. My investors have a “preferred strategy” and way of doing business (whether flip, rentals, etc). Many agents are just versed on how to get listings and not on how to analyze properties.
I do APOD’s for my investor’s that look to rent multifamily properties, and I’m amazed at how many agents don’t know what that is. When I ask for the property expenses they don’t even have the information. It is not wonder that so many “investors” got in over their head during the boom.
This is a good post and I look forward to your series.
May 12, 2008 — 7:01 pm
Barry Cunningham says:
Thanks Melina…careful..you might met the wrath of agents who feel insulted..LOL
Way to go!
May 12, 2008 — 7:21 pm
Brian Fudge says:
Barry,
Great article! Two years ago when I started looking at investing there was much less information available for investors and Realtors working with them. In response, we created a web application that simplifies a lot of the effort in analyzing deals.
http://www.krunching.com covers California real estate and pulls MLS listings, market rents (we use Rentometer), market conditions, and property records. We include a calculator that figures cashflow and we allow customers to search for properties that meet specific cashflow requirements.
Lots of other interesting data is available for the investor: we determine if a property is in a negative equity situation, and we tell which properties are REO, among other things.
By the end of the month we’ll be launching a Realtor feature-set that will allow a Realtor to add client’s e-mail addresses and specify investment criteria. Every night as new properties match the criteria the clients are e-mailed with a report, much like how MLS Client Gateway systems operate today.
Check it out and let me know if you or any of your readers would like to set up an extended free trial.
Brian Fudge,
President,
Krunching.com
May 13, 2008 — 11:48 am