I have written in the past about the hassles and pitfalls of dealing with lenders for possible short sale workouts. While I must admit that the whole process, regardless of the lender, can be “painful,” Countrywide is the epitome of ineptitude. I am here today to inform you, and warn you, my fellow agents, that if you are involved in the process of a short sale, and Countrywide is involved, please, PLEASE, run in the other direction. Let them have the property back through foreclosure. They’ll loose LOTS of money this way, and in my professional, experienced, and reasonable opinion, they deserve it.
I could vent my spleen for the next several paragraphs concerning the bumbling incompetence of this institution, and really just scratch the surface.
However, I do actually have some good news for those of you who happen to be in the unfortunate position of having to deal with Countrywide. I believe I have found the chink in their collective armour. Stick with me for a moment, as I recount the typical timeline for loss mitigation with Countrywide.
1. Get authorized to speak with them concerning your client’s situation. (48 hrs for acknowledgement).
2. Fax in a short sale package (72 hrs for acknowledgement).
3. A loss mitigator will be assigned to the case (within 7-10 days)
4. A loss mitigator is assigned ( and will review your case for 30-45 days)
Now, unless my math is wrong, this is A VERY LONG TIME!
SO, I have a few tips and tricks that will help those of you in this very difficult position to possibly expedite the process.
1.) Use a very thorough short sale package. Many agents simply send in a contract, (and a net sheet it they feel like it). Later on, when the lender finds out they don’t have everything needed to complete the package, the inexperienced agent will then scramble to find the requested documents and forward them a little at a time. My short sale package is just over 100 pages long, and includes everthing the negotiator could possibly need, and a few things they don’t need, but creates the burning desire to get this “hot potato” off their hands, and quick.
2.) Find the right number to get to exactly the department and people you want to speak to. There are literally about 20 numbers that will get you where you want to go, in a very circuitous route, and having spent a minimum of 45 minutes on the phone. If you are dealing with a short sale with these people, save yourself some time, dial (866) 880-1232 . This number will get you right to a human being in the actual department you want. No fuss, no muss.
3.) After about 10-15 days, you will get a “negotiator” assigned to your file. Your first order of busines is to call the peons at the above number, until you find out who your negotiator is. ASK THEM TO SPELL, VERY CLEARLY, THE NEGOTIATOR’S FIRST AND LAST NAME. Make sure they’re speaking clearly. Every single peon I have spoken to speaks some form of Arabic/Hindu/Spanish/Mongolian amalgamation.
4.) Now that you have the negotiator’s first & last name, you’re set to go. Now you start an email blitz campaign. I have discovered (Joy of Joys) that until they catch on and lock down access, you can use this simple formula to reach your negotiator by email: firstnameunderscorelastname@countrywide.com.
That should make your job a TON easier. You can thnk me by sending me part of your whittled commission 😉
Allen
Brian Brady says:
Good work with the full package.
I see plenty of agents who don’t open escrow; lenders discount offers that don’t have a set price.
RE: Tip #3- simply demand to speak with a person who speaks better English- I do this with CW loss mit and trustee svcs, all the time. If you keep whining about it, they’ll transfer you
RE: Tip #4- intuitive, dude! You’ve cracked the code.
April 4, 2008 — 9:24 pm
Bob says:
That isn’t a call an agent should make. If you take a short sale listing, there needs to be a reason why it is in the best interest of the seller to do so. Agents should not EVER make that call. That should be a directive from the client’s legal and/or tax adviser.
Be careful with a “full package”. If you do this without an attorney, you are inviting a lawsuit down the line. Crossing the line and acting on behalf of the lender best interests instead of the sellers’ is easy to without realizing it. Volunteering financial info upfront is one step across that line.
April 4, 2008 — 9:38 pm
Allen Butler says:
Helo Bob,
I have an attorney on staff who actually crafted my short sale package to give them everything they need, while protecting myself, my brokerage, and primarily, my client. I realize, of course, that I am not the final arbiter of “letting the property go to foreclosure.” But I do have a clause in my legal ER that states that I can cancel the listing at any time. I just like to razz Countrywide. They deserve it.
Allen
April 4, 2008 — 10:11 pm
Sean Purcell says:
Allen,
Great tips. I am already printing them and pinning them up for future reference and faxing as “Foreclosure 2008 – the Crisis” continues. (Could you hear the ominous music playing?) 🙂
April 4, 2008 — 10:12 pm
Craig Tone says:
I tried peon_peon@countrywide.com and it bounced.
Maybe that wasn’t the right strategy?
April 4, 2008 — 10:58 pm
Kathy Drewien says:
Oh, I so wish you had written this 3-weeks ago… We closed the CW short sale today. After much wailing and gnashing of teeth.
April 5, 2008 — 2:54 am
Brecht says:
I have several short sale contracts outstanding right now and the process has been excruciating with each. Problems aren’t confined to CW that’s for sure. First Franklin is a disaster.
But let me mention Ocwen here. This special servicer is perhaps the most disorganized unprofessional outfit I’ve ever dealt with. If you’re considering taking them on as a client and listing their bank owned property I recommend you don’t. Their “asset managers” are in India and they have NO clue. I terminated my 2 year relationship with them this week.
April 5, 2008 — 8:13 am
Bob says:
Allen, that is the only way to do it. Unfortunately many agents enter the short sale quagmire utterly unprepared, armed at best with notes taken at the latest short sale seminar or office meeting, but no clue as to the legal quicksand that surrounds them.
Close to 50% of the closed sales in my market are distressed sales, so I teamed up with a real estate attorney who is now my broker. I won’t take a short sale listing until the client has spoken with an attorney and been advised of the legal and tax issues specific to their situation.
With CW, they like to do “load balancing”, where they change negotiators on you. They don’t always tell you either. It helps to know a few people upstream to ride herd on files if you have more than one.
If you are dealing with a lender you haven’t worked with in the past, ask about the process. Try and get a supervisor and ask them if they could explain step by step what the process is that they would like you to follow. Ask for tips. What about subsequent offers?
Another problem is that sometimes pursuing a deed in lieu is best for the client, but many lenders now want the seller to try a short sale for 90 days first.
Beware that lenders will use agents and short sales to put the client in a less favorable position, particularly if your client enjoys any non-recourse protection.
April 5, 2008 — 8:46 am
Craig Tone says:
An unbiased opinion from a disinterested third-party is always nice.
April 5, 2008 — 10:55 am
Russell Shaw says:
GREAT article, Allen!
Unfortunately, it looks like the comment directly above from “Jim” is really from a paid writer, which leads me to believe that “loanresolve” is a scam of some sort.
April 5, 2008 — 11:07 am
Greg Swann says:
> Unfortunately, it looks like the comment directly above from “Jim” is really from a paid writer
I wasn’t sure. It read kind of like a long-copy ad, but it didn’t have the other earmarks of spam. I’ve killed it now on your evidence.
April 5, 2008 — 11:29 am
Glenn says:
As one commenter noted and you agreed with – the use an attorney and tax adviser is extremely important, because many real estate agents do not have the background to perform the financial forensics of the seller.
I do have to disagree with you “Let them have the property back through foreclosure. They’ll loose LOTS of money this way,” – in some cases, they can actually make money! Consider the financial aspects of the first lien holder and the second lien holder and the estimated market value of the subject property.
April 9, 2008 — 5:29 am
alejandra says:
Do you have any recommendations on how to deal with Countrywide regarding purchasing an REO? (already owned by then after foreclosure).
Is it the same department that deals with this process? Any contacts and tips/advise would be really appreciated
thanks!! alejandra
May 14, 2008 — 8:26 pm
SDREC says:
I must agree with this article. I have personal experience with Countrywide that continues to bog down the process. I know a few people internally at CW and they have told me that there are so many people trying to protect their own jobs that everything gets passed around without any real decision being made. The number of desk that shortsales must pass through for an approval is a nightmare. While the overall process with any mortgage provider is long and drawn out Countrywide is at the top of the list for companies to stay away from as it will just frustrate you and your clients to no end.
July 5, 2008 — 9:29 pm
Mike says:
Nice to be able to read something like this.
I’ve been dealing with CW trying to do a short sale for one week short of a year now. To this point, they have turned down 12 short sale offers.
The most recent was for $270,300 on a house that has a current market value of $277,000.
When I asked why it was refused, I was told the lienholder on my note does not accept any short sale offers for less than 100% of CMV.
The lienholder?
Deutsche National Bank of course.
I’m beyond screwed.
That outfit is so vindictive, it makes me wonder if they’ll try to sue me after the foreclosure is completed.
I’ve read that it never happens, but this certainly feels like the perfect storm of predatory banks and lenders to me.
Not sure what else I can do. I moved out when I could no longer pay the mortgage. I had the carpets cleaned. I left the water on so the landscaping wouldn’t die. I’ve done all I could to protect their investment….for nothing.
I’ve mostly made my peace with it at this point, but it’s beyond frustrating.
August 27, 2008 — 11:13 am
Starr Marsett says:
I am a real estate licensee in Anchorage, AK. I am currently dealing with Country Wide on two loans.
One is in pre-forclosure, I have an offer that will pay the loan in full. I have tried for three weeks to get a payoff, still do not have it. The have redrilled the lock on the door so there is no access for the the owners to get in and do the repairs needed to complete the sale. Each action they Countrywide takes adds dollars on to the payoff.
Second Loan short sale sent in with a complete short sale packet on June 10, 2008. A negoitator was not assigned until last week, yes that is right after three months and calls to god only knows how many people every week after week to check the status of this sale. At the time the offer was submitted to CountryWide the sellers owed arounf $211,000 now that balance is $240,000. I will advise everyone I know and will spread the word far and wide, do not do business with CountryWide home Mortgage, they are incompentent and clearly do not have the interest of thier customers in mind.
Starr
Licensee in Alaska
September 5, 2008 — 6:09 pm
Debbie Holsapple says:
I currently have 50 files with Countrywide and my hair is starting to fall out in clumps around my chair. While some files do get approved after months of work, the MOST frustrating files are those that I finally get an approval and the buyer is gone. With any other lender if this situation occurs and you have another buyer that meets the terms of the approval letter, you can get an amended approval within a few days and often within hours. Not so with Countrywide. They close the file, reassign it and the process STARTS OVER. This has happened on several of my files (as our market continues to decline in our area at a rate of 2% per month) and no matter who I speak with they refuse to see the logic of simply rerunning the numbers and sending out an approval letter. So….BEWARE…you CANNOT slide a different buyer in at the last minute. You will wait another 30 to 45 days. I spoke with a manager about this and her response was “If we did that for all of the approved files where the buyer walks and there is another offer that meets or exceeds our requirements what do you think would happen?” My very calm reply was “You might actually mitigate some loss” Her snappy comeback was “that wouldn’t be fair to the other buyers.” Look out for the Rocket Scientists in management at Countrywide.
September 17, 2008 — 10:42 am
Michelle says:
Countrywide should be banned by the U.S government. I work with a bank in foreclosures and was helping my sister with a loan modification request. They are IMPOSSIBLE to deal with. The call queues are locked in an endless loop de loop and the reps answering the phone have very minimal information or understanding about their own organization. I was put on hold while a rep asked if they have a loan modifications department after he told me what decision loan modifications made. As far as waiting 48 hours to see if a fax came in for authorization (that’s if they even claim to get it—I faxed one 5 times) and 30-45 days for a review??? We do ours in 3 business days. They are absolutely ridiculous and this is just one more example of the poor business ethics and customer service seen by this company.
October 15, 2008 — 6:56 am
RanchoSantaFe says:
Interesting information provided. Have done many short sales this year and last, but am engaged with my first Countrywide short sale! They are the second TD too! What an ardous process. I appreciate the information.
December 18, 2008 — 4:13 pm
Gretchen says:
Allen,
Any ideas on a direct line to the ‘Fannie Mae loan workout’ department? CW homeowners that have federally backed loans through Fannie Mae can be eligible or what is called a ‘work out’ program in which they can have their mortgage payment lowered to 38% of their gross income and/or a host of other things. Interestingly, despite the fact that the ‘work out’ program is a federal program the lender is the one who gets to determine if they accept you into the program. Who made that up I’d like to know? Especially with CW’s horrific reputation.
I visited two attorneys and spoke with three consumer credit counseling agencies who all said the same thing after learning the CW was my mortgage lender. They are the worst mortgage lender in the history of the institution. CW is apparently under federal indictment for fraud and bad business practices and as a general rule refuse to work with any of their customers. The deal is they force you into foreclosure. Why? Because they can write off the loss, therefore there is no incentive to work with homeowners on saving their homes.
I feel the pain of all of the CW homeowners out there suffering trying to work with CW to salavage their home and their life. I am one of those home owners. I have never dealt with such a shifty, incompetent, immoral company in my life. I hope that they are put out of business permanently, and if not, that they have to be absorded under Bank of America (who now owns CW) entirely. This is a souless company and they should never be allowed to keep doing business.
January 7, 2009 — 9:43 am
laura says:
Thanks for the phone number. After doing a short sale 2005 with CW I thought I was losing my mind. Everything they wanted changed every day with them. Would it kill them to hire people who speak some form of english? BTW, i heard if you tell them you are hard of hearing they will give you another number of only english speaking people.
January 16, 2009 — 2:46 pm
scott flax says:
Alan,
Your information is the best that I have inquired so far. I have currently put an offer on a short sale from country wide. I am the buyer not the agent. My questions are
1) On average how long does it take for country wide to render a decision about a shortsale.
2) What percentage of fair market value are they willing to accept or is their another criteria?
3) As the buyer what can my agent do to facilitate the sale more efficiently.
4) is country wide shortsale loss mitigation departmentimproving?
5) I am on borrowed time at my current residence due to my divorce. If they do not give a decision soon I am going to have to change my course of action.
January 20, 2009 — 12:13 pm
Mike says:
Scott,
I’m not Alan, but I can give you the seller’s perspective on your questions, as I went through this from September 07 to October 08.
1) CW took anywhere from 2 weeks to 3 months to respond to an offer, and they only responded after daily badgering by my agent.
2) As of 3 months ago, only 100%. The final offer we presented CW on my house was for $270K. The house was valued at $277K. So they turned down an offer at exactly 97.5% of CMV. When asked for the reason, we were specifically told that they would accept NO offers under 100% of CMV.
3) From watching my buyer desperately try to purchase my house from early May to late September, I can tell you that NOTHING they did had any effect.
4) I can’t speak to the last 90 days, but as of October, no things were not improving. We went through 7 mitigation specialists in 12 months – each time after to start all over as they had no non of the prior history up to that point.
I wish I could give you better answers Scott, but unfortunately this was my hellish experience with CW. In the end, they turned down exactly 12 offers on our house. It went into foreclosure and remains vacant. It is currently listed for sale at $234,900 with no interest, and no buyers.
I’ll never understand why they didn’t take any of the offers we presented. They will now lose even more money then they would have otherwise.
The only thing I can think is that they will use some sort of unethical and borderline illegal accounting methods to take care of the loss, and this was FAR more important to them then:
1) Accepting a fair offer basically at CMV
2) Removing the house off their books
3) Providing a home and a new loan for a family who desperately wanted the house, and COULD AFFORD IT.
I’m trying to move on and get on with my life, but when I see this same crap happening to other people, it just makes my blood boil.
Best of luck to you Scott.
~Mike
January 20, 2009 — 4:57 pm