“Hello Mr. Agent, I like this house. I could see my family living here. Just one question, are there any sex offenders nearby”? A simple question that based on information from the National Association of Realtors does not have to be answered by the agent.
The answer the NAR wants agents to proffer is, “Well Mr. homebuyer you’re just going to go look that up yourself”.
Ralph Holman, associate general counsel for the NAR says “What agents should do is tell buyers about their states’ registries.”
Go look it up yourself! That’s the answer that the NAR wants agents to give. An individual who is held out in NAR advertising and lobbying as a professional on par with doctors and lawyers wants their rank and file members to dodge this question as much as possible.
This certainly bestows credibility and trust with the American consumer doesn’t it? This surely will make the public more sympathetic to the plight of Realtors shouldn’t it? You would not expect a “professional” who is being paid upwards of 6-8% to facilitate the sale of a housing purchase to actually tell the truth would you?
If not for information and said coordination of the sale what exactly is the agent being paid such a hefty commission for? Why would any agent or the NAR encourage a culture of deceit? If not deceit, then call it ignorance and unprofessional. In any event, if you are selling a product as important as where someone wants to house their wife and children, then is it not too much to expect that the consumer is relying on the agent to inform and disclose all defects, not the ones they choose to disclose?
Has the NAR declined in credibility so far as to instruct their agents to actually feign ignorance or have there agents slid so far as to actually buy into degrading their “profession” by bamboozling the consumer?
A professional should not have to question whether such information is pertinent. A professional should deliver the information willingly and should openly and freely desire to offer full disclosure.
USA Today recently ran a story wherein a spokesman for the National Association of Realtors was quoted as stating that they have no disclosure policy regarding sex offenders.
I have a question. Do you think a real estate agent buying a home for their family would care if a sex offender lived across the street?
What’s behind this “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell Policy all about?” What else, can it be about other than money!
A 2002 study by Wright State University professors James Larsen and Joseph Coleman found that homes situated within one-tenth of a mile of a sex offender sold for an average 17.4 percent less than similar houses elsewhere. Homes between one-and two-tenths of a mile away sold for 10.2 percent less, while those between two- and three-tenths of a mile sold for 9.3 percent less.
That means lower sales price which translates to lower commissions. It also means more liability for the real estate agent. Which incidentally was the reason the NAR gives for NOT disclosing information about sex offenders.
In the pending Florida case discussed in the aforementioned USA Today article, Christopher and Pamela McCoy bought a home and found out subsequent to the purchase that a convicted sex offender is living NEXT DOOR!
The Sellers, Shawn and Stacey Sima openly acknowledged that a Sheriff’s deputy knocked on their door and handed them a flier informing them of the predator next door but feel that neither they, nor their agents who are named in the suit, had any duty to disclose this fact.
Duty? How about ethics? How about decency? Co-defendants in the case are a local ReMax Real Estate brokerage and the agent involved in the transaction, Peter Lamaster.
In court documents we have reviewed, ReMax and Lamaster claim that it’s the Seller’s fault and the Buyer’s fault and that the disclosure rules do not apply to them. They actually said that.
This statement is eerily reminiscent to the Marti Ummel case in California, it is becoming readily apparent that some agents are intentionally hiding information they know to be in existence and detrimental to the collection of their commission. The new rally cry seems to be that agents must at all cost protect the commission and in defense thereafter do not claim ignorance but rather cowardly state that it is not your responsibility.
The pedophile living next door was arrested for having illegal sexual contact with his own teenage stepdaughter, and was convicted of two counts of sexual battery on a child and sent to prison for a year and a half, followed by three years of counseling and 10 years of probation.
Whether or not this man has served his time or not, the fact remains that should a prospective Buyer not deserve to know that a criminal…not a Jewish person or a Black person, or a Spanish person or a Muslim,..but a convicted criminal who committed a vicious act upon a child, is living next door? I mention Jews, Blacks, Hispanics and Muslims because the National Association of Realtors relies upon the Fair-housing laws that prevent agents from talking about neighborhood demographics.
“The conservative approach is often taken in order to avoid a lawsuit popping up in response to frank neighborhood talk, said Holman, agents are forbidden from giving information that could be considered “steering,” directing a client toward or away from a particular property in a discriminatory manner”.
Making statements about an individual’s race or religion is one thing, but a convicted criminal who is a incurable sex offender is hardly a discriminatory statement. It’s the truth and as such would be a complete defense to any complaint brought for libel, slander or discrimination. Never mind the fact that discount brokers across the Country and upstart companies like Redfin could speak to the proven reality of agents steering clients away from certain listings…give me a break!
Many purchase contracts now include disclosure information about how to look up information on registered sex offenders, but should it be at the time of signing a Contract that this direction be given? Is not the consumer trusting the professional in the transaction to be looking after their best interests?
Does the agent meet the consumer and initially state, don’t believe anything I say and verify yourself before buying this house? Of course not, their “sales pitch” is to make the client feel as if they have their best interest at heart when in true reality, they don’t.
Requirements as to sex offender disclosure varies from state-to-state, but in most states all an agent has to do to comply is tell a prospective homeowner where to go to find out the information if they want to know.
This was not the intent of Megan’s Law and the NAR should be ashamed of skirting the law in an effort to increase pecuniary gain for its members.
While the law says that by informing prospective purchasers how to access the database, that one may be in compliance, would’nt a true professional WANT to exceed this cursory compliance and make sure that they are acting in the best interests of the consumer?
Richard and Maureen Kanka were the Megan’s parents and the catalysts for Megan’s Law. Megan Kanka who was seven years old when Jesse Timmendequas, a repeated violent sexual offender who lived across the street from her, kidnapped, raped, and murdered her.
Megan’s mother has publicly maintained if she had known a convicted sex offender lived in the neighborhood, her daughter would be alive today.
“Every parent should have the right to know if a dangerous sexual predator moves into their neighborhood.”
The Kankas, stricken with grief, became advocates for change in how the sex offender is treated. In an effort to get the laws changed they circulated a petition demanding immediate legislative action. That petition was signed by over 400,000 residents and the law was changed in just 89 days from draft to passage.
This being known, the NAR chooses to act and advise on the side of the sex offender.
This undoubtedly has become a difficult issue for agents sellers, and their attorneys because Megan’s Law does not address the duty of a property owner or their agent to disclose to a tenant or buyer that a known sex offender lives in the neighborhood. But does it have to be that difficult? Human decency should outweigh duty.
The National Association of Realtors’ position is that local law enforcement agencies, not real estate agents, should be the go-to sources for sex-offender information, stating that Realtors, “should not bear the responsibility of notifying home buyers when such offenders live in a neighborhood.”
Cogent evidence and veracious compassion for humanity should be enough to supersede the limitations of responsibility and duty.
Henry B. Torn says:
Barry,
Great article and topic! I have to say you made some very legitimate points although overall I need to disagree with you on this over arching principal;
IT IS NOT THE DUTY OF A LOCAL REALTOR TO ‘JUDGE’ THE CHARACHTER OF NEARBY NEIGHBORS!! WHAT IF THE REALTOR HAS THEIR FACTS WRONG? WHAT IF THEY SOLELY RELY ON RUMOUR AND INNUENDO THAT ARE GROUNDLESS AND BASELESS?
Look it up with the city, county or State Sex Offender databases is the correct and appropriate answer! That way you are absolutely sure you are dealing with a ‘convicted felon’ and not some nosey neighbor gossip who ‘thinks’ there is a problem with that ‘guy’! If we have to ‘do our homework’ for property values, school test scores, other quality of life issues then why should we not ask the same about local sex offenders? I would argue there is no room for error and you better make 1000% sure that the alleged sex offender is indeed a convicted felon!!
I despise ‘Political Correctness’ more then anyone but I also despise ‘Gossip’ and ‘Rumors’ and people not doing there ‘homework’! How would we be able to live anywhere if we based our decisions on the word of a realtor or anyone else in the neighborhood?
March 26, 2008 — 8:56 am
Barry Cunningham says:
Hi Henry..thanks for the comment.
I was not in ANY way saying the agent should make something up or go on rumor. What I am saying is that instead of telling someone else to go look it up, I believe the PROFESSIONAL in the transaction should provide the accurate information as obtained by the correct source which would be the registry of your state or even the national registry.
I for one am tired of some agents who lay off the work they should be doing as so called “professionals”.
It’s all about taking the extra step to ensure consumer confidence. Is that really a bad thing?
March 26, 2008 — 9:25 am
Mariana says:
I see that you have a valid question, as a non-real estate agent and a potential consumer, but I cannot agree with you.
It is not lazy delegation, but a pointless game of “telephone” that always has poor outcomes. Why should I be the middleman in this and risk different levels of misunderstanding, that could ultimately be harmful to both the surrounding neighborhood and to my clients? My clients are smart enough to go right to the source and find that information.
March 26, 2008 — 10:07 am
Barry Cunningham says:
What does being a real estate agent have to do with morals and decency…please, don’t answer that.
Your clients being “smart enough” is not the question. Most assuredly it’s not a game of “telephone” either. You as a real estate professional can obtain true, verifiable information and as a part of doing business can provide this to the consumer so they don’t have to go find it out for themselves.
I am sure your clients “are smart enough” to buy and sell a house less expensively as well. But they choose to do business with someone they think is looking out for their best interests.
Agents can’t have it both ways. Too many agents say that the process of buying a house is so complex that they are needed, then turn around time and time again and tell the clients to go find out information for themselves.
Isn’t that counter-productive and actually ENCOURAGING disintermediation?
March 26, 2008 — 10:24 am
Russell Shaw says:
Your post, although well written, is mostly a cheap shot. It is inflammatory and the solution you offer is not very workable. You seem anti-agent.
The level of legal liability that would be incurred by telling someone that the answer was affirmative or negative on the question of “is there a sex offender nearby” is simply huge. There is NO accurate data base for sex offenders. They are not up to date.
There may be a lot of things that NAR could improve in their actions. I don’t believe this is one of them.
March 26, 2008 — 10:32 am
Mariana says:
My response to your comment, Barry, would just mirror what Russell just said. Thank you, Russell.
March 26, 2008 — 10:38 am
Brad Rachielles says:
Barry, thanks for your post, but you have missed a big point. Russell Shaw has the right take on this. IF the Megans Law web site was the sole property of the N.A.R., and it was a huge revelation that such a web site was available only by reading some statewide real estate advisory that was only a part of the transaction to purchase, then you may have a point. But, that is not the real world.
Any parent, family or individual has a responsibility to be dilligent in the selection of where they wish to live, and part of that is looking after their own health and WELLFARE. Megans Law web site has been given much publicity outside of real estate circles. Anyone not taking precautions by using the best tools available is just not doing their due dilligence.
March 26, 2008 — 11:14 am
Sean Purcell says:
Barry,
Great post, if for no other reason than the comments you are getting and (I imagine) will continue to get. I agree with a large part of you over arching principal, but I think you have bitten into a particularly difficult aspect.
Of course the agent should be the professional and that means, Marianna’s comment notwithstanding, knowing everything material about the neighborhood. The agent is by definition the middleman and (more importantly) the trusted advisor (some might even use the legal term: agent).
But the liability of which Russell Shaw speaks is undeniable. I do not think most agents act (or do not act) out of laziness on an issue like this, but rather fear. We have created such a mish-mash of laws meant to protect everyone from every slight that no one is sure what to do; even when it comes to sharing the publicly available information on sex offenders in our clients’ neighborhood!
The fact that this is a liability to agents is degrading to all involved. IMHO, even most of the laws you mention are a bit degrading. What if my client (to use one of your examples) is Jewish and wished to find a neighborhood where “keeping the Sabbath” will be common? If I give them any help with regard to this logical, related question I am in violation of all kinds of laws and standards. I agree that prejudice should be systemically removed, but as a society we tend to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
I know I have gone off on a tangent so I will bring it back. I see two problems: one is the “nanny state” system of laws designed to make sure no one ever feels slighted rather than respecting the autonomous intelligence of the individual. The other is the degradation of agency and what it means from an ethical as well as financial stand point.
March 26, 2008 — 11:34 am
Barry Cunningham says:
Russell, I am not by any means “anti-agent”.
Cheap shot? Inaccurate? In this instance the Sheriff’s deputy knocked on their door and handed them a flier!
That’s not an allegation, that’s a fact. What part of this is a cheap shot…the part informing the general public of the shortfall of “certain” agents and for them to beware?
Why is it that agents think that when issues are covered it must be by someone who is “anti-agent”.
Much to the contrary…it is not intended to be inflammatory, the facts of the cases mentioned are what they are. They are not made up, they are not in dispute… they are what they are.
The only thing that is in dispute is whether or not an agent should have afforded the buyer’s the relevant information over and above what they believe to be their “duty”.
I now clearly understand that it is many agent’s feeling that “caveat emptor” reigns supreme in a housing transaction as there are obviously limitations to a consumer’s expectation of representation in a housing transaction. (as far as some agents are concerned)
That being said, the comments seen thus far herein are a far cry from previous musings of agents championing the value of intangible qualities that an agent brings to a transaction.
March 26, 2008 — 11:43 am
Kim says:
Barry, you demand that Realtors advise clients about “a convicted criminal who is a incurable sex offender,” but in fact the states’ registries include a LOT of people who are neither convicted criminals nor incurable sex offenders. Often the “crime” involved is two teeneagers having sex, which may be a “crime” but is not something your client’s family has to be concerned about – but nonetheless, there’s a “sex offender” in the neighborhood.
And guess what? Every neighborhood has one. Or two or three.
March 26, 2008 — 11:44 am
Greg Swann says:
This is edited from an email I just sent, reacting to agent provocateur Barry Cunningham:
Barry definitely hits a harder line than most of us take — and BloodhoundBlog is heaven for hard-liners. But, as with his first post, he takes up the topics no one else wants to talk about — which has always been BloodhoundBlog’s bread and butter.
Here’s one way to think about it: If Barry blurts out the stuff that your clients are wondering about — but don’t bring up — then gnawing on his bones will teach us how to take away the hidden objections.
What’s the best way to deal with an unpleasant objection? Pre-emptively. In response to a question, you’re always on defense. But if you bring the topic up first, you look like an honest information broker — just for admitting that there really is a 900 pound gorilla in the room.
“Let’s talk about my professional fee, because I want you to understand precisely why working with an experienced Realtor is such a bargain.”
“Let’s talk for just a minute about the issue of sex offenders in the neighborhood, because I need for you to know what I can and can’t do.”
That’s money in the bank, even if the upfront tuition is painful.
March 26, 2008 — 11:45 am
Barry Cunningham says:
Greg..EXACTLY…that kind of discussion creates and absolutely places an intrinsic valuation on an agent wherein I would not question a 6% fee becuase you make me feel like you are looking out for my best interest. The hook would then be firmly planted in cheek!
March 26, 2008 — 11:48 am
Barry Cunningham says:
Hi Sean…thanks for te comment!
As far as I know being Jewish is not a crime and is most assuredly covered under the fair housing laws. Being a convicted sex offender is acknowledging a criminal. I think there is a big difference there.
The “degradation of agency and what it means from an ethical as well as financial stand point”. Could be an issue I would like to pursue in further discussion.
March 26, 2008 — 11:51 am
Michael Cook says:
Barry,
Good article and good points. I didnt feel it was anti-agent nor a cheap shot at all. Its a valid question to ask, as it does have an effect on what you will pay for the home. I am sure the couple would have paid less for a house next door to a sex offender and if the realtor is working in their best interest it would seem their obligation to find this out for them and at least suggest they get a lower price, if not look for a better location. Keep writing, so far you are two for two in my book.
March 26, 2008 — 12:17 pm
Barry Cunningham says:
Hey Michael,
Thank for the comment. I am not sure why it was thought to be a cheap shot but nonetheless it’s a topic for discussion.
March 26, 2008 — 12:27 pm
Sean Purcell says:
Barry,
Whoa! I did not imply that being Jewish is a crime (I enjoy being inflammatory from time to time, not intolerant). I am merely discussing the professionalism one might expect from their legal, ethical and financial advisor.
Fair housing laws stifle an agent from answering questions which may be of legitimate interest to the client. That is a far cry from the affirmative responsibility one might feel to point out sex offenders, nearby freeway development, the existence of lead paint and any other material information that may inform the clients’ opinion as to value and choice.
My point is that all aspects of a property, which can reasonably be known by an agent, should be known and either discussed (if it is material) or readied for discussion (if it may be of interest). This is the nature of creating an agency relationship and acting in someone’s best interest.
March 26, 2008 — 12:42 pm
Barry Cunningham says:
I love the affirmative responsibility angle…I think we see more eye to eye than not.
March 26, 2008 — 12:47 pm
Chris says:
Let the people find out for themselves! Those online registry’s are not always 100% correct, and if I am unlucky enough to get called for saying yes or no and am wrong I get sued!
So if you want agents to disclose this we have to be protected from the liability, somehow.
March 26, 2008 — 12:59 pm
Kelley Koehler says:
Hi Barry – the issue of not being required to disclose the sex offender issue is something to be addressed much sooner than at the time of writing a contract, most certainly. I do it in the agency discussion, at the first substantial meeting with a client, so we all know about it up front: “There’s a rule that I’m not required to disclose X, Y or Z. Most often, I’m not going to know those things anyway because the Seller and their agent don’t have to tell us. But, I can help you research that on these sites if any of those things are a concern to you.” And then we can discuss the sites and the question of whether they’re accurate or not. It’s not a perfect solution, but it allows me to address it early and often prompts my clients to bring up what ARE going to be big issues to them.
March 26, 2008 — 12:59 pm
Dan Sullivan says:
Wow. I think you are way off base with this post.
Q: “Are there any structural issues with this home?”
A: “I recommend that you consult a structural engineer.”
Q: “How long will this roof last?”
A: “I suggest that we have a roof inspection done by a professional.”
Q: “Are there any sex offenders nearby?”
A: “You should refer to the state registry and find out for sure.”
Agents aren’t being lazy – we are trained to be the source of the source. Our job is to protect our clients interests in the best way possible – in this case, the state has an official registry, required by law – I can’t imagine a better source, or a more responsible way to answer the question.
March 26, 2008 — 1:26 pm
Barry Cunningham says:
I don’t have it wrong. Who said “lazy”?
I think agents should stop listening to brokers and other agents and even the NAR and seek out competent counsel.
“we are trained to be the source of the source” that’s a new one.
This is just about moral ethics.
March 26, 2008 — 1:35 pm
Dan Sullivan says:
Barry;
I don’t know of a better source for this information than the sex offender registry in my state. I am confused by the fact that you think it would be immoral to refer my client to the best source available.
Would I become more moral and ethical if I were to go to the site myself and print out the findings?
I’m just not following your logic here. My goal is not to avoid the question – just the opposite. I am referring them to the best source I know of that can answer their question. If you know of a better source, I am all ears, and would refer them there.
As a side note, my broker requires us to review a huge six page disclosure form and have it signed by all buyers and sellers. It was created to address things that are not required by the state, but are still important. Within that form is specific information about sex offenders and due diligence by all parties.
I think you are assuming that anyone who would refer their buyer to another source is trying to avoid the question or hide information that could hurt the deal. That is just not the case.
March 26, 2008 — 1:53 pm
Barry Cunningham says:
First of all read Kelly’s comment above (hurrah Kelly) and if you still need further clarification then maybe read Johnson v. Davis.
Be the professional!
March 26, 2008 — 2:00 pm
Sean Purcell says:
Kelley,
Kudos on a great way to introduce the subject matter and make sure that the client even knows to ask.
I do not know if this was Barry’s original problem and I am not putting words in his mouth. But my problem is that if the client does not ask then the agent does not tell. That seems to be a gross abrogation of an agents’ responsibilities. That is not to suggest than an agent should have every offender’s name on a disclosure form, only that it should be brought up as a material fact (especially if, through due dilligence as an agent, you happen to know that there are nearby offenders according to the registry).
Again, best answer I have heard so far: Kelley Koehler’s comment.
March 26, 2008 — 2:08 pm
Barry Cunningham says:
Yes Sean..the “don’t ask don’t tell” line is dangerous at best. I agree with you that Kelly’s comment was spot on.
March 26, 2008 — 2:11 pm
Michael Cook says:
“Agents aren’t being lazy – we are trained to be the source of the source.”
Does a source of a source really deserve 6% of the total transaction? When it comes to building a value equation, I would not recommend leading with that slogan. What enhances a realtors value propositoin is affirmatively and proactively offering solutions to maximize value or minimize value based on the side of the trasaction you are on. People can pay $20 at Borders for a “Source of the Source.” Value comes in figuring out the best way to get your client their best price, location, etc.
March 26, 2008 — 2:41 pm
Dave Phillips says:
I love posts that generate this much discussion. I appreciate Barry bringing up this topic and stirring the pot from a non-REALTOR point of view. That should be welcomed by all.
I perfer Kelly’s remarks as well. I would add that I think agents should be more proactive at getting the link to the offender’s website to their clients. Post it on your web site, send it to them in a follow-up e-mail, etc. In other words, complying with the law is NOT good enough for me. In that point, I agree with Barry. Although he is somewhat over the top with his suggestions, agents should find the golden nugget in his post – you better do more than get me to sign a disclosure with the “if you want to know go look it up yourself” language in it.
Let’s all keep in mind that the real problem here is not Barry’s post, its the sex offenders. I suggest Barry’s next post be on chemical castration.
March 26, 2008 — 3:00 pm
Barry Cunningham says:
Thanks for the comment Dave.
Chemical castration..hmmm……..
March 26, 2008 — 3:13 pm
iamutahrealestate-Marty says:
This is a great article and discussion. It blows my mind that so many agents lack the intestinal fortitude to stand up for their buyers. “Mr. Client lets check out a couple web sites to see if there is a convicted sex offender by this home you want to make an offer on.” It is hard to think that a client would try and sue the agent when the agent is pro-active in assisting and providing information on where and how to find sex offenders. By the way here is good third party web site, http://www.familywatchdog.us/. I love Kelley Koehler’s post above.
Last time I checked the sex offender is not a protected class!
The NAR should take a harder stance on this issue….. Oh I forgot they are to busy setting up a federal credit union for its members.
March 26, 2008 — 3:23 pm
Scott Brunner says:
I think this post is off-base, ESPECIALLY given that so many state sex offender registries have been proven to be ridiculously (in some cases) inaccurate…
March 26, 2008 — 3:51 pm
Lane Bailey says:
So, let me ask a few questions…
Client asks me if there are any sex offenders, or I know they have kids, so I check it out myself.
On January 30th, there are no sex offenders.
Buyers think about putting in an offer.
The database is updated on February 1st. There is now a listed sex offender.
Buyers complete purchase, and close on March 1st… not knowing there is now a sex offender.
Did I do the job? What if the sex offender moves in on March 2nd? Or moves out but the database isn’t up to date? What if the sex offender was a 18 year old kid that had sex with his 17 year old girlfriend?
Do we have a duty to our clients to talk to them about it? Absolutely. Do we have a duty to our buyers to make the decisions for them? No.
There are a lot of variable in the simple scenario. It is easy to pull up one case and go to town on it, but try writing a rule that covers all situations.
And I’m ticked because you made me defend the NAR…
March 26, 2008 — 4:11 pm
Barry Cunningham says:
Lane…like I said earlier…First of all read Kelly’s comment above (hurrah Kelly) and if you still need further clarification then maybe read Johnson v. Davis.
My mother use to tell me I would always know what is right and what is wrong. I don’t need a law to govern my actions..I inherently know right from wrong.
Govern yourself as you want and like the popular WWJD bracelets, put on he WWLB bracelet.
Sometimes as “professionals” the questions we are posed with require contemplation outside the realm of what is simply compliance.
You’re a big boy, stop trying to find the angles. You’ll know when your actions pass the smell test.
Bottomline…would you want to know?
As for defending the NAR..you really don’t want to step into that ring, do you?
March 26, 2008 — 4:27 pm
Louis Cammarosano says:
Barry
If realtors are supposed to be local experts important facts like how to determine whether a sex offender lives in the area, should be part of the realtor’s knowledge.
Does the NAR take the view that its membership should should punt on other questions regarding local knowledge like –
What’s the weather like? (“check the weather channel”)
What are the schools like (“Look it up yourself”)
What’s this home really worth?(“Look it up on Homegain or Zillow” 🙂
March 26, 2008 — 6:26 pm
Norm Fisher says:
Is it any wonder that the NAR doesn’t have a shred of credibility? Wow!
The listing agent involved in the lawsuit you mentioned should have his head examined. He knew this information and chose to take the listing on the understanding that it wouldn’t be disclosed?
March 26, 2008 — 6:56 pm
Barry Cunningham says:
thanks for the comment Lou and Norm.
I guess Norm saw that the guy actually knew the information and intentionally concealed it. The fact that they did not disclose was not disputed. What they are contending in court is that they had a responsibility to do so.
Check out today’s show and listen to an expert who is testifying in the case.
Lou..I could not have said it better myself.
March 26, 2008 — 7:34 pm
Doug Quance says:
Big Barry delivers another heater over the plate!
A few points to consider:
NAR’s members serve both buyers AND sellers – whose interests are often at odds with each other.
Should NAR support a mandatory disclosure… which would put their member’s selling clients at disadvantage? I think not.
When I represent a buyer, I let them know where they can find the registry (it’s also on our contracts) but I also remind them that there is nothing stopping a sex offender from moving into the neighborhood after they buy.
I also suggest to my buying clients that they knock on the neighbors doors of a prospect property to get a feel for whether or not the neighbors will be nice and friendly.
Over the years, we’ve passed on a few properties because of less-than-desirable neighbors… but none yet as a result of a sex offender living in the neighborhood.
March 26, 2008 — 7:52 pm
Barry Cunningham says:
Doug thanks for the comment. Love the door knocking idea..getting out there and seeing who the neighbors are is a real good way to get a sense as to whether it’s a good fit. Good idea!
March 26, 2008 — 8:35 pm
Greg Cremia says:
You are wrapping 2 separate issues together.
1. If I knew there actually was a sexual predator living nearby I would definitely inform my clients. The agent in your story should lose their license and help those buyers move for hiding that fact.
2. The problem typically is, how do I get that information? The registries I have seen are too inaccurate to use with confidence, per the police department. These type of people register their address upon getting out of jail and subsequently move and don’t tell anybody, per the police department.
So, I use the registry and inform my buyers that this house is not a good choice but this other house, according to the directory, is a safe choice. Meantime the predator who was living next to the first house moves to the “safe” neighborhood.
Now, I have led my buyers to feel safe in an area that is not safe. How is that helping my buyers?
Consumers with children are best served by learning to stay on their guard and watching that registry on a regular basis. There is no safe neighborhood when it comes to children. Never has been.
March 27, 2008 — 5:08 am
Wine Dog says:
In California if the seller knew the sex offender was next door, knew he was registered and didn’t disclose, it’s on the seller for failing to disclose a material fact. There are disclosures here where you point the buyer in the direction of the websites and local police but it isn’t the duty of the agent to research that. It’s the duty of the buyer to do their due diligence. OTOH, if either the agent or seller know that he is a registered sex offender, it’s a material fact.
I buy fixers and I have a licensed contractor inspect during the due diligence period. If I had children, I would most certainly check the registries and with the local police. I don’t know how Florida is going to go on this, different State different laws, but IMO the buyer here has a responsibility to do their due diligence.
March 27, 2008 — 5:30 am
Barry Cunningham says:
Hello greg and Wine dog (love the name!)
Louis Cammarosano in his comment I believe summed it up. He wrote: If realtors are supposed to be local experts important facts like how to determine whether a sex offender lives in the area, should be part of the realtor’s knowledge.
I think there are ways to determine the veracity of the information. We are able to on the homes that we sell and on the ones that we buy. So what, the guy moves..at least the prospective buyer was alerted that according to the records “at the time of my research” there was a scumbag living next door.
It’s not a big deal, it’s a little extra work but again, build the intrinsic value and win the trust of the customer that Hey..this guy is actually looking out for me.
Anyone who has ever watched an infomercial and seen the disclaimer (individual results may vary), well all I am saying is to at least try and simply provide them with the information that you would want to know and then let them make their decision.
Why is this even a point of contention? It can’t be the liability? Is it the work?
March 27, 2008 — 5:40 am
Henry B. Torn says:
As someone who has twin 11 year old girls, I am hyper sensitive to this issue yet do NOT believe it is the Realtor’s responsibility to disclose this information. It is MY RESPONSIBILITY!! Just as it is my responsibility to find out about the Crime Rates, School Test Scores, Current Home Values especially in the age of the INTERNET there is NO EXCUSE for the prospective homeowner to do their own due diligence. Not the responsibility of the Realtor.
Here again another example of ‘blaming’ another party for one’s lack of due diligence.
March 27, 2008 — 11:13 am
Barry Cunningham says:
Update on this Post:
We have spoken to several lawyers and an expert who is testifying on this particular case.
A lot of people commented on this post and accused us for “shoting from the hip” and not being sensitive to the business because I am not a licensed agent.
1. I am very close to the agents in our office and we are involved with the training and management of many agents. That being said, we are not simply investors out there winging it. We make our living from the real estate industry. I state this because some have been erroneously presumptous in their thinking that we are not aware what an agent is faced with.
Which leads me to something we do which most don’t, and that is to perform additional research when a subject is questioned or comments seem to be contrary to the law.
2. The lead expert on the case spoken about above wrote the following:
“After one of my staff listened to your program yesterday and upon my listening, I would like to address one point. Specifically you inquired about my opinion on real estate brokers fear of being sued for discrimination for revealing the prescence of a sexual offender or predator. HUD enforces the THE FAIR HOUSING ACT you are not allowed to discriminate because of the following:
a. race or color
b. religion
c. sex
d. national origin
e. familial status, or disability
These are the protected classes that this law addresses.
You will notice that age is not included because you can restrict sales to for instance 55 years of age and over.
A felon is not part of a protected class.”
That being said,providing a prospect with information relative to a sexual offender or predator is NOT subject to any portion of the Fair Housing Act and does not place any liability on an agent.
You may view the Fair Housing Act at the following link:
http://www.hud.gov/offices/fheo/FHLaws/
You may further find additional information on the application of the Fair Housing Laws by going to the following link:
http://www.fairhousinglaw.org
If you have further qustion or concern I would suggest contacting your business lawyer, not just accept high-fiving associates who think they know the law and its applications.
March 27, 2008 — 3:08 pm
Laurie Manny says:
Barry,
1)A known sex offender walks into my office and says. I want to list my home (in my farm), but I have conditions. He wants the home sold to a family with young children and is in the process of carving out an apartment in the area behind the kitchen. He wants to be able to remain in the home in the apartment he is creating. I escort him out of my office in disgust. Home never gets listed. Yes, this really happened.
2)Some years ago I had a triplex in escrow and was in dual agency. The property was being sold to a family with young children. The front house had been run as a clean and sober living facility by the son of the owner for some years. It was a large beautiful historic home with 2 lovely units out back. Long after disclosures were completed and a week prior to closing (on a Tuesday) the son drops a bomb, in front of the father, who was obviously as shocked as I was. One of the tenants is on the list. He then became belligerent and basically said he didn’t give a crapiola about Megans law because the tenant was a NICE Guy, la la la …
At that time it required a 30 to 60 day notice to evict a tenant, depending on how long they had occupied. We were closing in one week. After a VERY heated conversation I left and called the owner in the morning. A short discussion of the ramifications ensued.
The unit was empty by Saturday.
Nuff said?
March 27, 2008 — 7:25 pm
Barry Cunningham says:
Unbelievable story..gives me chills Laurie!
March 27, 2008 — 7:56 pm
Gabe Dawson says:
Here is a bomb for you. I am a registered sex offender. I am on the list because when I was 18 and had a relationship with a 16 year old girl. In my state that is against the law. In some states, that would have been perfectly legal. Geography???
Does that make me preditor? I made a stupid error in judgement when I was 18 but that does not mean that walk up and down the street looking for children to molest.
The problem is that all sex offenders get painted with the same brush and that is not fair. Many sex offenders are dangerous…I don’t deny that but the truth of the matter is that many are not.
The FBI reports that less than 5% of molestations are committed by strangers. Almost always, the child knows and trusts the adults. The fear of sex offenders should be the folks that you see everyday that have relationships with your children, not the random guy that lives five houses down.
My heart goes out to the familes and victims of those children that are snatched and victimzied by random strangers but the truth of the matter is that those cases are so isolated. The media sensationalizes them in an effort to whip folks into a frenzy but the fear is misplaced.
So…I have said all of this to say…I don’t think it is the realtor’s responsiblity to disclose that information unless he or she is willing to disclose the nature of their offense and provide them with all the facts.
April 6, 2008 — 9:55 pm
Greg Swann says:
Thanks for telling that story, Gabe.
In Maricopa County, our idiot Sheriff created the Crime-Free Housing policy. Apartment communities that sign on agree never to rent to felons — zero tolerance, zero thought.
I worked with a murderer who had killed in the defense of another person’s life at the age of 16. Tried as an adult and convicted. Sweetest man I know on this earth, wouldn’t hurt anyone, but he can only rent in places where he is surrounded by real felons.
I worked with the one-time head of security at a tony Arizona resort. One night he had one drink too many. He got pulled over and, because he had his sidearm unsecured on his person, it was a felony DUI. Six months in prison, and, when he got out, he had nowhere he could go except the same kind of crime-infested apartment community.
Laws exist to outlaw thoughtful discretion. It’s no surprise that their effects are so often inhumane.
April 6, 2008 — 10:12 pm
Barry Cunningham says:
Hey Gabe..tough story. Yes your predicament is tough.
However, it does not change my opinion. The Realtor is supposed to be a “professional”. My doctor does not tell me to go look things up on WebMD.com. My lawyer does not tell me to go look up state statutes. My realtor should not tell me to go look up anything either. It’s a cop out at best and incompetence at worst.
If you want the job of Realtor and want to wear the moniker of being a professional, then a Realtor ought to stand up and stand behind their chosen line of “business”.
Your plight aside, agents are’nt ghosts. They need to be seen or disintermediation will be increased.
April 7, 2008 — 5:22 am
James Malanowski says:
It is a doctor’s job to provide medical care. It is a lawyer’s job to provide legal council. It is a REALTORS job to disclose what he knows and refer to the professional who can answer questions that the REALTOR cannot.
In CA, the Megan’s Law disclosure is in the purchase agreement as well as additional disclosure forms provided to the buyer. The disclosure makes it very clear where to go and find information on sex offender locations.
I don’t know about other registries, but the one in CA is very hit and miss. On top of offenders not keeping their location updated, the sites may or may not be current.
If an agent gives the buyer info that may or may not be correct he is opening himself to liability that is not in his control. Just like you would not state that a crack in a driveway is caused by settling or just because it’s the nature of concrete to crack, you would refer the buyer to a soils engineer if the buyer showed concern. The only responsibility the agent has is noting the crack.
Agents have enough liability as it is. The goal is to minimize exposure at every opportunity. The agent provides service to the buyer by directing him to professionals in the field in question.
I think that blasting NAR for this is way off base. The State of CA requires agents to take a risk management course as part of our continuing education requirements for licensing. Part of that risk management course talks about this topic. Directing the buyers to the Megan’s Law website or the local authorities is the recommended action as well.
– James
April 10, 2008 — 5:25 pm