This post is grown from a comment left by Brian Summerfield, editor of Realtor magazine. Before I begin, I want to commend Brian for daring to show up here to debate this topic. I think he’s wrong, but the man has more guts than the people who pay him.
Now then: I said:
Doesn’t mean that banksters would not have come up with other flavors of larceny.
To which Brian replied:
Greg, you toss this off as an afterthought, but I see it as a key point. You say the sine qua non of the Great Recession was NAR, but it was in fact systemic flaws in the global financial system. Without collateralized debt obligations or credit default swaps, there would have been no Great Recession. And NAR had nothing, nothing, to do with the creation of those “innovations” of finance.
As you, the reader, may have noted, there are people writing and commenting here who are more than unusually interested in philosophy — as a map of the universe and as a discipline of the mind. Brian’s argument turns on what normal people call “hypotheticals.” Jim Klein calls them contra-factuals, where I am apt to rave on about subjunctivity. In all three cases, we are talking about the same thing: We are making what we hope are logical claims about imaginary worlds, worlds not in evidence.
The universe outside our minds has an independent and prior existence, and the objects and events that comprise that universe are real and factual existents. When I make a statement about the real world — the universe of real things — my statement is subject to independent verification. The object I claim to see is either present or it is absent. The event I claim is happening is either occurring or it is not. Disputes about statements like these are possible only to the insane or to philosophy professors — but I repeat myself.
So: These things really happened:
1. The National Association of Realtors either wrote or lobbied for a great host of Rotarian Socialist laws devised to churn the residential real estate market for the benefit of real estate brokers and their salespeople.
2. In consequence, lenders issued a blizzard of highly dubious home loans.
3. Those mortgages were bundled by Rotarian Socialists on Wall Street into CDOs — collateralized debt obligations.
4. The risks associated with the CDOs were putatively offset by a type of securitization known as a CDS — a Credit Default Swap.
Brian’s subjunctive, contra-factual, hypothetical argument, quoted above, comes down to this:
If the NAR had not used rent-seeking legislation to induce millions more residential real estate transactions than otherwise would have occurred, nevertheless, lenders still would have issued millions of bogus mortgages, bankers still would have bundled those mortgages, and clueless European central banks still would have purchased the resulting CDS securities.
This is obviously a false claim.
By taking account of the events that really did occur in the sequence that they really did occur, we can see that steps 2, 3, and 4 could not have happened in the way they did without the instigation of the NAR in step 1.
Might other bad things have happened? You bet. But the bad things that did happen were set in motion by the National Association of Realtors — and by no one else.
Sine qua non means “without which not,” and that criterion excludes other considerations. The crimes the National Association of Realtors has consistently committed against consumers since it was first organized have finally caught up to it. What we are living through now was set in motion by the NAR alone, and these undeniably real events would not have happened in this way were it not for the craven, grasping, Rotarian Socialist corporate welfare of the NAR.
Moreover, this is the subjunctive, contra-factual, hypothetical question that really matters: What if the National Association of Realtors were the friend, and not the persistent, recidivist enemy of homeowners? What would have happened in the American economy if the NAR had fought against Rotarian Socialism in the legislature, instead of leading all the other corporate hogs to the welfare trough? Would there have been any sort of recession now, if the NAR had been a champion of private property, instead of being yet another regiment of over-dressed Washington welfare slaves?
But that question doesn’t matter at all, does it? They’re thieves. They always have been, and they always will be. They themselves do not believe Realtors have any value to bring to the marketplace, so they will continue to promote legislation that despoils consumers to the benefit of real estate brokers and their salespeople. They think we can’t actually earn a living without legislatively-sanctified theft.
Do you think the damage they have done so far is devastating? Wait until they’re $80 million a year richer.
In any case, as always: The National Association of Realtors was the sine qua non cause of the Great Recession. The more we talk about it, the more rigorous the case comes to be.
Dan Connolly says:
My primary objection to this line of thought is that it gives the NAR way more credit/power than I believe they actually have.
April 5, 2011 — 9:11 pm
Jim Klein says:
I could argue forever about the minutiae (not about the subjunctive!), but that stuff doesn’t matter for the readers of this blog. So my unsolicited suggestion to the striving RE person is to throw it all out except this:
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Moreover, this is the subjunctive, contra-factual, hypothetical question that really matters: What if the National Association of Realtors were the friend, and not the persistent, recidivist enemy of homeowners? What would have happened in the American economy if the NAR had fought against Rotarian Socialism in the legislature, instead of leading all the other corporate hogs to the welfare trough? Would there have been any sort of recession now, if the NAR had been a champion of private property, instead of being yet another regiment of over-dressed Washington welfare slaves?
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Yes, that is all that matters with regard to, “So what should I do?” Like any other wrong behavior, the answer is, “Recognize it and not do it any more.”
April 6, 2011 — 5:51 am
Cheryl Johnson says:
Exactly, Jim.
And so in my effort to recognize what’s what, I realized that I wanted to see a concise list of housing legislation backed by NAR and passed over the last several years.
It appears no one has posted such a list on Realtor.ORG, although searching the archives brings up some interesting documents from years past in the legislation-regulation category.
My search lead me to this article which does contain a chronological list of federal housing acts since 1937 (see page 3) http://www.thecyberhood.net/documents/papers/mcclure10.pdf
The article is hosted at cyberhood.net, a site sponsored by the Urban Affairs Association, an organization not without its own agenda.
And while readers here may disagree with some conclusions of the article, I think it is an extremely interesting addition to the conversation.
April 6, 2011 — 6:31 am
Keith says:
I am not in favor of an increase, but not because of the money, but because it is going to go to Lobbying efforts, that I may or may not be in favor of. Doesn’t this country have enough of that already?
I have to respectfully disagree with Greg on this point.
1. The National Association of Realtors either wrote or lobbied for a great host of Rotarian Socialist laws devised to churn the residential real estate market for the benefit of real estate brokers and their salespeople.
Yea, so what? That is one of the functions of the NAR, is to get us more business! NAR did not write/verify the individual loans did they?
Is the American Dream not to own a home, two cars in every garage… yada…yada…yada!
Can we really place all the blame on NAR? To me it is more of the “I NEED what the Jones’s have” mentality, that got us into this mess.
BTW, you should check out an excellent post that Matt wrote: http://blogmattblog.com/?p=4886
April 6, 2011 — 12:29 pm
Brian Summerfield says:
Greg, thanks for your compliments. Although it may be more that I’m nuts than that I have guts.
But I wasn’t arguing a hypothetical, or at least that wasn’t my main point. What I’m saying is the sine qua non — the “without which not” — for the massive wealth destruction that got underway in 2008 and lasted for the next couple of years (i.e., the “Great Recession”) was the deeply flawed financial system. Specifically, I’m referring to financial instruments such as CDOs and CDSs that obfuscated risk and projected an inflated picture of values to nearly everyone. Without these, there may have been an economic downturn, but I don’t see how it could have been nearly as deep, devastating, and enduring as it actually was.
April 6, 2011 — 12:54 pm
Greg Swann says:
Brian, just to cut to the chase: Is it your claim that the National Association of Realtors did not light the fuse leading to the explosion you decry?
I don’t think that’s a supportable proposition. To the contrary, I think the more we examine laws like the Community Reinvestment Act, the American Dream Downpayment Act, the capital gains exclusion, mortgage interest deductibility, the relaxation of underwriting standards at FannieMae and FreddieMac, etc., the more clearly we can see the NAR’s fingerprints all over everything. Do you dispute all of this?
April 6, 2011 — 2:29 pm
Jim Klein says:
>> 1. The National Association of Realtors either wrote or lobbied for a great host of Rotarian Socialist laws devised to churn the residential real estate market for the benefit of real estate brokers and their salespeople.
> Yea, so what?
So the purpose of lobbying is to direct the guns of the government at one group of people for the benefit of another group of people. Period. You can pretend otherwise, but there is no other function and the government has no other tool.
So if you believe that can be right, why not cut out all the middlemen and just rob the people yourself? At least an armed robber isn’t pretending that he’s doing something else!
> That is one of the functions of the NAR, is to get us more business!
You make it sound like an advertising cooperative. That’s hardly what went on, as Greg has enumerated.
Be careful what you wish for. If someone could “get us more business” freely, why would they need you?
April 6, 2011 — 6:09 pm
Brian Summerfield says:
Greg, the only “chase” that I’m interested in cutting to is the claim you make in the headline of this post: that NAR caused — or was the essential element, or the genesis, or whatever Latin term you want to use to describe it — the Great Recession. A recession (and a depression) by definition is a sustained degeneration of wealth. The question that concerns me in this instance is: Who or what obliterated trillions of dollars in wealth from 2008 to the present, and how? And I think I’ve made my views on that clear.
Unfortunately, I don’t have time to continue this conversation, but I want to leave you with this: I genuinely appreciate you and the people who write here. Your collective commitment to results, innovation, and overall excellence in your profession is impressive, and I know there are plenty of people in the industry who admire you for that. But overstatements like this don’t do you any favors.
April 7, 2011 — 9:38 am
Greg Swann says:
> NAR caused — or was the essential element, or the genesis, or whatever Latin term you want to use to describe it — the Great Recession.
Again: Remove all of the NAR-sponsored legislation. The Great Recession still would have occurred?
Absurd. We all know this. The NAR could do itself a big favor by admitting the obvious and resolving to do better going forward. Instead, it will redouble its efforts at despoiling the American economy.
> Unfortunately, I don’t have time to continue this conversation
“You always end with a jade’s trick: I know you of old.”
Thank you for your participation, in any case.
April 7, 2011 — 9:52 am
Brian Summerfield says:
Ah, Shakespeare. Seriously, though, if I spend too much time on message boards, I’m gonna get fired.
April 7, 2011 — 9:55 am
Sean Purcell says:
Catching up on my BHB reading and this line struck me as laugh out loud funny:
…if I spend too much time on message boards, I’m gonna get fired.
Every agent I know, wakes up every morning… fired.
I agree with Greg’s assessment of the NAR, and so what. I am surrounded at almost every turn by organized thieves and thugs. That the NAR pretends to speak for me is only one of many indignities visited upon me on a daily basis.
But that there is a group of people out there somewhere who pretend to speak for me, yet don’t experience being me every morning… the height of hypocrisy. Thank you for the much needed chuckle.
April 8, 2011 — 11:58 pm
Jim Klein says:
> Every agent I know, wakes up every morning… fired.
That’s a classic line, Sean…much greater than the context here. I think it’s the difference between every person who gets a regular paycheck from a job, and every person who has to go out each day and make his way. “Make” being the operative word there.
So they outlaw and punish making, and wonder why there’s less and less of it with each passing day. Tough riddle that one, eh?
April 9, 2011 — 6:14 am